Progress on Immortal

[peterw1987]

This game I will try building all those buildings as they come, and fill in later with the rest. The advantage of islands with Indonesia is the luxuries, anyway.

You cant afford building all those in the build list. There will be one city that truly focus on producing military(barrack,armory,military academy- neglect guild,library,amphiteater). And one city that truly neglect military(focus on culture and science). I have ironworks in my capital, and all production building, and i invest everytime, but i still need to neglect some military building.

For indonesia, the UA has changed into just new city(no need to be on separated island or continent)

 

[Txurce]

You cant afford building all those in the build list. There will be one city that truly focus on producing military(barrack,armory,military academy- neglect guild,library,amphiteater). And one city that truly neglect military(focus on culture and science). I have ironworks in my capital, and all production building, and i invest everytime, but i still need to neglect some military building.

For indonesia, the UA has changed into just new city(no need to be on separated island or continent)

In terms of buildings, I can afford what I can afford. I was considering starting with anti-crime and anti-poverty buildings on island cities. I build these either because of resources, or because I've run out of contiguous places to build on the mainland.

 

[Boombar]

I never pick progress simply because opportunity cost is to high. I always feel like I am gimping myself when i not pick tradition or authority. Doesn't matter what civ you play or what victory type you have in mind.
If you want faster expansion, authority is superior. IF you want to go to war, again, authority is simply superior. If you want to spam wonders, build culture/science, tradition simply beats progress by large margin.

Progress is designed with wide play in mind. The problem here is that going wide means going to war and if you go to early war with authority civ, you r gonna get your ass kicked on higher difficulties. Going wide makes happiness problems and progress gives you 1 hapiness per 15 pop which is nothing compared to happiness you get from tradition or authority. Those free workers come to late. 20% production is good mid game but it gets nearly irrelevant when you get other % modifiers on production. Culture form progress is laughable compared to authority culture or tradition.
Going progress = 0 snowball potential unless you play on prince.

 

[infidel88]

Progress + Piety + Industry + Order is superstrong. For Indonesia for example, with current plantation buffs or for Carthage, Babylon, Vikings even Egypt. Hell, I loved Poland progress (pre nerf).

IMO keys are:
- early culture is the key;
- religion that gives or ;
- early money generator helps, as you need to connect your cities (unless you're Carthage);
- placing your cities in 3 tiles radius, creating king od web (like hansas in Civ6) - you need cities close to each other to minimize road costs and allow helping each other out;
- make cities that specialize in producing army and other stuff;

What this combo guarantees? You will outproduce ANYONE. And it won't be even close. You can create insane amounts of units in no time and you can support them. You can instabuy anything, as money won't be an issue once you hit renaissance. 1000g/turn is peanuts.

 

[Txurce]

I'm due to branch out of Rationalism/Freedom, so I'll give Industry/Order a try... and closer spacing! I still space Tradition style.

 

[CrazyG]

I'm very focused on specialists, because that's how I generate science and culture. This comes from having played only tall on vanilla, and mostly tall on VP (until I began trying to win a SV with all 3 policy starts on Emperor and then Immortal). Would you go at it differently in going after a SV with progress?

Analyzing my last game, and putting aside the Aztecs' freakish size, I realized that my really bad unhappiness comes from islands, even when they have most gold and deense buildings. This game I will try building all those buildings as they come, and fill in later with the rest. The advantage of islands with Indonesia is the luxuries, anyway.

I can't for certain because I've never got a science with progress, it seems like tradition does this way better. But if the goal is to do it via progress, I'd consider Jesuit Education. Freedom certainly has merit, but order is designed for this kind of empire, and I think Industry will serve you well. I've started to see Aesthetics and Rationalism as tradition parts 2 and 3.

 

[Txurce]

I can't for certain because I've never got a science with progress, it seems like tradition does this way better. But if the goal is to do it via progress, I'd consider Jesuit Education. Freedom certainly has merit, but order is designed for this kind of empire, and I think Industry will serve you well. I've started to see Aesthetics and Rationalism as tradition parts 2 and 3.

Yeah, I'll be going this way in my next effort. For me a SV helps broaden your overall game, and obviously so does pulling it off wth all three starting branches. That said... Progress is clearly the weak sister on Immortal (and Deity, I imagine), but works well enough in the mid ranges. I don't think it needs an obvious adjustment.

Thanks for all your advice.

 

[Strigvir]

On higher difficulties you HAVE to start around a lux with culture so you could ignore the left part for a while.

 

[Txurce]

On higher difficulties you HAVE to start around a lux with culture so you could ignore the left part for a while.

That's where Festivals comes in.

 

[Owlbebach]

Seriously i do not understand why everyone hates progress so much... I won it without additional from recources or UA on immortal on huge map multiple times and i think it is way better than tradition... You will be low on culture for a long time, thats true, you will probably loose couple of wonders, but it will pay off later! In the late game progress will give you around ~200 /turn (and much more combined with industry) while tradition will stay on 40/turn at maximum.

But i think that the only right way to play progress is to focus on first, second and third. I usually build well/watermill and forge before monument and council in 4th-5th and later cities. Also the only right order of taking policies is this one:

 

[Der_Zorn_gottes]

I play progress most of the time, and while I agree with your 1 and 2 picks, I finnish the right side first all the time. So early you don't build a lot of buildings anyway, so the gains from building completions will be scarce. The science from city connections however is one of the biggest sources of science in the early game, and thus my third pick.

 

[Owlbebach]

I play progress most of the time, and while I agree with your 1 and 2 picks, I finnish the right side first all the time. So early you don't build a lot of buildings anyway, so the gains from building completions will be scarce. The science from city connections however is one of the biggest sources of science in the early game, and thus my third pick.

I agree, but that depend on situation. I usually build like 9 cities before turn100 and i start building roads only when i have more than 2 unhappines from isolation. Earlier roads cost too much money, also worker time is lost, better to spend it on luxuries

 

[CrazyG]

Seriously i do not understand why everyone hates progress so much... I won it without additional from recources or UA on immortal on huge map multiple times and i think it is way better than tradition... You will be low on culture for a long time, thats true, you will probably loose couple of wonders, but it will pay off later! In the late game progress will give you around ~200 /turn (and much more combined with industry) while tradition will stay on 40/turn at maximum.

But i think that the only right way to play progress is to focus on first, second and third. I usually build well/watermill and forge before monument and council in 4th-5th and later cities. Also the only right order of taking policies is this one

Tradition is going to give you 50 culture per great person expend, scaling with era, that's really powerful during the mid-game, you are certainly going to pass 40 per turn. I guess my issue with Progress is I always never find myself short in late game power (especially culture) as tradition, so I don't see value is making my early game harder for a stronger late game. The Hanging Gardens seem much better than Parthenon to me.

 

[ElliotS]

Tradition is going to give you 50 culture per great person expend, scaling with era, that's really powerful during the mid-game, you are certainly going to pass 40 per turn. I guess my issue with Progress is I always never find myself short in late game power (especially culture) as tradition, so I don't see value is making my early game harder for a stronger late game. The Hanging Gardens seem much better than Parthenon to me.

Remember that because it comes with a free great work Parthenon actually gives 3 more than it says on the tin.

 

[Owlbebach]

Tradition is going to give you 50 culture per great person expend, scaling with era, that's really powerful during the mid-game, you are certainly going to pass 40 per turn. I guess my issue with Progress is I always never find myself short in late game power (especially culture) as tradition, so I don't see value is making my early game harder for a stronger late game. The Hanging Gardens seem much better than Parthenon to me.

The problev that i usually have with tradition is that all cities except your capital develop really slow. +2/+2 seems small, but with that you build well/watermill and forge much faster, and with extra gold you don't need to rush to trade and build markets asap

 

[peterw1987]

The problev that i usually have with tradition is that all cities except your capital develop really slow. +2/+2 seems small, but with that you build well/watermill and forge much faster, and with extra gold you don't need to rush to trade and build markets asap

Gold is the way to get new city going if you play tradition. Invest for well/watermill and monument is a must for fast growing new city. Or you can use internal trade route.

 

[CrazyG]

Remember that because it comes with a free great work Parthenon actually gives 3 more than it says on the tin.

I'm aware of the great work and the Parth still seems mediocre to me. Tradition can get its own great work via that early artist if it wants.

The problev that i usually have with tradition is that all cities except your capital develop really slow. +2/+2 seems small, but with that you build well/watermill and forge much faster, and with extra gold you don't need to rush to trade and build markets asap

I have never felt the need to rush trade and build markets with tradition. Production outside capital is definently the Achilles heel for Tradition, but I'd rather have that 1 challenge than deal with progress' myriad of early game issues. Authority blows both away for early development.

 

[Starrynite120]

I'm aware of the great work and the Parth still seems mediocre to me. Tradition can get its own great work via that early artist if it wants.

I have never felt the need to rush trade and build markets with tradition. Production outside capital is definently the Achilles heel for Tradition, but I'd rather have that 1 challenge than deal with progress' myriad of early game issues. Authority blows both away for early development.

I'm curious, how do you see Authority blowing the others way? Is it only the production in each city? I'm wondering just because I usually play peacefully and have never actually gone Authority.

Btw I also feel similarly that I never felt the need to rush gold as tradition, but I do with progress.

 

[Txurce]

I'm curious, how do you see Authority blowing the others way? Is it only the production in each city? I'm wondering just because I usually play peacefully and have never actually gone Authority.

Btw I also feel similarly that I never felt the need to rush gold as tradition, but I do with progress.

My first Science victory on Immortal was with the Aztecs, playing Authority/Statecraft/Rationalism/Freedom. You could argue against any of the last three. But the Authority start -- provided you're willing to fight sufficiently -- really hits on all cylinders.

 

[CrazyG]

I'm curious, how do you see Authority blowing the others way? Is it only the production in each city? I'm wondering just because I usually play peacefully and have never actually gone Authority.

Btw I also feel similarly that I never felt the need to rush gold as tradition, but I do with progress.

If you go left side, the third policy will give a free settler and newly founded cities effectively start at 2 population. This plus extra production means strong early cities, your happiness policy becomes relevant faster than the others do. Basically everything comes into play really fast, I love playing Authority in Ancient Era (later eras less so)