Proper Air Tactics

[teachingking]

Need help with air warfare...

What is the proper use of Triplanes/Fighters/Jet Fighters when attacking? Specifically, what do I sweep? The City, specific units? And once I have swept, is it supposed to be completely safe to attack with bombers?

Also, I don't understand why Stealth Bombers are so highly rated. Although they are supposed to be 'stealth', they still seem to take a fair amount of damage when I attack with them. I am obviously not using them correctly.

Thanks,

 

[Antiphon]

Stealth bombers have huuuuuuuuge range, and that damag youre talking about...are you attacking GDRs who have a sam batteries in each hand? Seriously, they rock. Now back to sweeping. Sometimes, when you have a bombin mission selected and hover over a targat, a red text will show you how many interceptors ARE KNOWN to you. Example, you hover over an infantery and it shows 2, its reasonably to do 2 sweeps. Each sweep "consumes" the intercepting capability of one unit. In our example, the 2 interceptions are because there is one fighter, who has that upgrade that allows it to intercept two times, so you would need two sweeps to nullify those interceptions. Now you select your bomber and go on a mission, you see that no red text shows up, and the only damage the bomber takes is from the defending infantry. Except there was like a sam battery in fog of war you didn't see, it would still intercept the bomber and add damage. Except for if you had been tricky before, and did two additional sweeps just to make sure (you can sweep intercepting units you don't actually see, so if you have excess fighters, why not make sure the paths free?).

 

[chazzycat]

the safest way to do it is keep sweeping until you get the "our fighter encountered no resistance" message.

stealth bombers have huge range and do a lot of damage, but there isn't an actual "stealth" mechanic. you still have to do air sweeps to clear out the defenders. but if the defense is old (no SAMs) and you have air repair you should be fine.

 

[joncnunn]

Last I heard, best air tactics in Civ V is to NOT build fighters at all but exclusively build Bombers. And use AA Gun units as defense.
It had something to do with them both competing for the same Oil resource along with mechanics of the promotions for fighters vs bombers.

 

[chazzycat]

but AA can't air sweep. Hrmm...

personally I generally build bombers & fighters at about a 3:1 ratio.

 

[Erneiz Hyde]

Back then before AA units can actually hurt your planes, Bombers indeed rock and fighters are needed only for the larger sight range (bomber has more attack range, but less sight range than fighters). Now you really need to do those sweeps on the offensive. A full health bomber can easily get shot down in one or two turns with just one unit of AA. On the plus side, your AA also kills enemy planes just as fast if you're turtling.

Air units actually functions more like a melee unit because they always take damage when attacking. So even if you've cleared all defenders, you will still take damage. This is why Air Repair is crucial.

 

[Memoryjar]

Have air repair ASAP.

 

[JamesCivFan]

@joncnn,

From my experience, especially on the highest difficulties, you need to have a few upgraded Fighters. I usually have enough money to buy about 4 Fighters in a city with the Military Academy + Heroic Epic + Brandenburg Gate.

They get 3 promotions right off the bat, and I always use the first two for better sweeping and the third one on Air Repair. I never really needed more than 4-6 Fighters for about 16 bombers, though.

@OP,

A little tip about bombers: get air repair as soon as possible! It's extremely useful for attacking multiple times every turn without having to rest at all. A fleet of about 16 bombers and 4 Fighters, all with Air Repair is almost overpowered.

Just remember to sweep until you get the message "Our Fighter has encountered no resistance". Last but not least, remember that when you are trying to rebase units, the "rebase range" is double their bombing range. I never saw this one in the "Civilopedia". I hope I helped!

 

[ravenmagus]

Need help with air warfare...

What is the proper use of Triplanes/Fighters/Jet Fighters when attacking? Specifically, what do I sweep? The City, specific units? And once I have swept, is it supposed to be completely safe to attack with bombers?

Also, I don't understand why Stealth Bombers are so highly rated. Although they are supposed to be 'stealth', they still seem to take a fair amount of damage when I attack with them. I am obviously not using them correctly.

Thanks,

Sweep a tile with the fighters; they'll absorb one interception that would have hit a targetted attack on that square (so anything within 2 tiles for ground based attacks, or anything within a waiting fighter's range). If they trigger a ground based interception, that unit's intercept will be used up for the turn and the fighter will fly away. If they trigger another fighter plane, they'll go into a dogfight.

Personally, I mainly use fighters for defense against bombers. Set them to Intercept and they'll guard a wide area around where they're based.

Stealth bombers are ridiculous. They give a massive sight bonus to the city they're in (10 squares), their range is ENORMOUS (20 tiles! - often enough to hit a whole different continent from home), they do tons of damage, and they come with an innate Evasion 100 promotion that makes them practically immune to intercept attacks (that's where the Stealth comes in). They still take a bunch of damage if they attack an AA unit directly, but they can ignore those for the most part and are basically unstoppable once they get Air Repair.

 

[teachingking]

Thanks for all the advice...much appreciated.

 

[beetle]

They get 3 promotions right off the bat, and I always use the first two for better sweeping and the third one on Air Repair.

I agree with Air Repair for the third promotion. It seems like my fighters with interception do fine on air sweeps whereas my fighters with the dog fighting promotion frequently die when on interception duty. Granted, I am a light user of sweeps and heavy user of interception, but am I missing something?

 

[tat501]

the safest way to do it is keep sweeping until you get the "our fighter encountered no resistance" message.

stealth bombers have huge range and do a lot of damage, but there isn't an actual "stealth" mechanic. you still have to do air sweeps to clear out the defenders. but if the defense is old (no SAMs) and you have air repair you should be fine.

This.

Bear in mind that the AI generally doesn't commit more than 1 fighter to a city for intercept duties (but there may be another fighter in another city that is able to cover the range to help intercept as well which might catch you off guard) and after clearing the fighter - its a case of counting how many other AA units they have in range. Sometimes the AI has a fair number of AA guns (CS's grant them quite frequently) so a few sweeps should do the trick. Unless you're America. Then just bomb them with B-17s anyway. Once you get Air Repair and Logistics on them baby's its good night Vienna....or whatever other city you're attacking.

 

[Enonwnn]

Last I heard, best air tactics in Civ V is to NOT build fighters at all but exclusively build Bombers. And use AA Gun units as defense.
It had something to do with them both competing for the same Oil resource along with mechanics of the promotions for fighters vs bombers.

This.

My tactics are to get some enhanced sight or horse/tank unit so you can see the area you want to invade. This could be use of a spy in a city or an upgraded scout, or whatever alternatives you can come up with (America UA is good for this).

Build bombers. Don't stop building bombers. Use these bombers, and whatever fast/range units you can to take out the AA guns/SAM units before attacking anything else. Air sweeps may be useful, but they don't get rid of the underlying problem.

Beeline for air repair promotion. A stealth bomber with air repair will take very little comparative damage against a SAM unit, and if you have a host of bombers, they'll make light work of the ground-air defence.

IMO, building SAM/AA units is a waste of hammers. Militaristic City States will provide more than enough of these to cover your defence.

As for dealing with enemy fighters... Well, that's all they are. I'm yet to see an enemy Jet Fighter, and normal Fighters have nothing against Stealth Bombers. Are these ever a problem?

Also, why would you want fighters taking up your airport space nowadays?

 

[beetle]

My tactics are to get some enhanced sight or horse/tank unit so you can see the area you want to invade. This could be use of a spy in a city or an upgraded scout, or whatever alternatives you can come up with (America UA is good for this)...

Also, why would you want fighters taking up your airport space nowadays?

One fighter in city is a more straightforward way to provide the sight range. Also, I tend to have at least one carrier full of bombers that eventually becomes a carrier full of jet fighters. So yes, mostly bombers, but a few fighters too.

I am still hoping to learn more about the dogfighting promotion, as it seems much, much less useful than interception. Based on this thread, I tried dogfighting and sweeps heavily in my most recent game over the weekend. It seemed very ineffectual, as the fighters never gained experience and my bombers did not seem to be doing any better. I have fun and feel successful with interception promoted fighters.

 

[JeSuisNapoleon]

I dont think anyone has mentioned an important "air tactics" procedure yet:

Have a medic 1 / Medic 2 unit parked adjacent to your current airbase.
This adds healing to all aircraft within the city. Combined with air repair promos, your air units (fighter or bomber) will be able to be used much more frequently.

this is a trick that is helpful for interceptors, dog fighters, and bombers. So it important no matter how your air force is used.

*NOTE:
I have not tried the same thing with aircraft carriers. Does parking a medic 2 unit embarked next to a carrier still heal the aircraft the extra amount? I would like to know! Could I set the carrier on a coastal tile with the medic on land but still adjacent and get healing? also unknown.

 

[4N4C0ND4]

I dont think anyone has mentioned an important "air tactics" procedure yet:

Have a medic 1 / Medic 2 unit parked adjacent to your current airbase.
This adds healing to all aircraft within the city. Combined with air repair promos, your air units (fighter or bomber) will be able to be used much more frequently.

this is a trick that is helpful for interceptors, dog fighters, and bombers. So it important no matter how your air force is used.

*NOTE:
I have not tried the same thing with aircraft carriers. Does parking a medic 2 unit embarked next to a carrier still heal the aircraft the extra amount? I would like to know! Could I set the carrier on a coastal tile with the medic on land but still adjacent and get healing? also unknown.

Very good tip indeed, and curious as well for the rest.

On topic, I do think fighters are mandatory on higher difficulties at least. Some AIs LOVE to spam AA guns, and usually outmatch your bombers. Good luck trying to do anything vs an army flanked with 5 AA. Even with a lot of sweep, its hard to damage them with bombers with their inent +100%(?) vs planes.

A bit offtopic but on my last deity game yesterday, I saw Germany using a lot the sweep function vs another AI, and quite effectivly
Was really pleasingly surprised!