Proposal for strategy of early aggression

[Eklektikos]

Originally posted by disorganizer
Hmmm. This poll should be settled by the governor of the province or the domestic department, as this falls under their reign ;-)
Maybe some alternatives in the poll would be nice, as i dont like yes/no polls (no can come out if only a few points are not liked).

I hope they'll support the poll and suggest any changes to it they'd like to see made.

I like y/n polls, because the action that they mandate is always clear. However I might mark the barracks issue down to be the subject of further discussion to prevent it alone stopping this proposal. Any thoughts on this?

 

[chiefpaco]

I think it sounds like a great plan. I hope it is endorsed by our governor. I'm not sure why we wouldn't want a barracks.

Also needed is input and support from the Science department to facilitate the "future rush".

I'd like to support the proposal by reserving a fund for the upgrade of troops.

 

[Chieftess]

Shall we vote on the proposed vote? (this is getting ridiculous! )

Anyway, I like having options. Having a "yes/no" for poll and having 'no' win, means back to the drawing board. We need several option such as this: (note, I'm making these up. )

Which proposal should we use?

Ekletikos's Proposal
Disorganizer's Proposal
Cyc's Proposal

----------

Ekletikos's Proposal: warrior (scout), warrior (scout), settler.....
Disorganizer's Proposal: warrior (scout), warrior (fortify), settler
Cyc's Proposal: scout with setter/worker, settle, warrior, warrior, settler

 

[disorganizer]

Hey, in fact i like my proposal. Even if i didnt knew it before you told me

 

[Eklektikos]

Originally posted by Chieftess
Ekletikos's Proposal: warrior (scout), warrior (scout), settler.....
Disorganizer's Proposal: warrior (scout), warrior (fortify), settler
Cyc's Proposal: scout with setter/worker, settle, warrior, warrior, settler

Not sure I remember ever suggesting using the second warrior as a scout... check the proposal which clearly states that it's to be used as a garrison.

Also I think you'll find Eklektikos contains three "k"s

EDIT: Not sure I can read, either... didn't notice CT saying she was just making the proposals up. Check my head which clearly states "danger: flammable gases within".

 

[donsig]

Originally posted by disorganizer
Hmmm. This poll should be settled by the governor of the province or the domestic department, as this falls under their reign ;-)
Maybe some alternatives in the poll would be nice, as i dont like yes/no polls (no can come out if only a few points are not liked).

I think I understand what you're saying dis but the way you're saying it can be misconstrued. Such a plan certainly requires the cooperation of the governor and domestic leader but the War Minister is within his jurisdiction to post such a poll. That said, I do think the proposed poll is too in depth. I understand that if we decide to use this strategy it would be best to go full tilt. I'm just not so sure we have enough support to go that way.

 

[disorganizer]

Well, as we are not at war, the build queues are in full reign of those 2. If we get into a war-state, i believe the military takes over those? The others only have override possibilities.

Well, after reding this paragraph i must say finally its the choice of the governor what to build. All others only have override functionality.

 

[chiefpaco]

I am a bit concerned with the proposal only if it must be followed. While I think it is a great proposal, it is not necessarily the best for every situation. If we'd like to call it "Plan A", I'd be a bit happier.

For instance, in 20 turns or so (about the time the next settler is ready), we may find that our nearest rival is perhaps too far to get to with archers. Or we may be stuck all by ourselves. Or it may turn out to be more advantageous to build settlers?

I think we could use the 2nd warrior as a close-range scout if there doesn't seem to be a threat and there is a luxury nearby to make a citizen happy or we use the entertainment slider a bit.

 

[Octavian X]

Basically, we rely on josh to build the warriors/settlers. After he takes action, the respective departments may do what they want. We will need lots of cooperation between all of them, though. However, if Josh goes off into his own little world, the council may still override him with a majority vote.

BTW: The only time Eklektikos would have the ability to override ability on his own is in time of invasion, when hostile units are acutally in the province's territory.

 

[Eklektikos]

The doughnut venerator is correct - I can only override if we are invaded, and even then I would hope not to have to do so. I have no desire to try to dictate policy to any of the other branches of government at any time, but wish them to lend their voluntary support to this and future military proposals should they agree with them, and offer their constructive criticism or outright opposition if they do not.

So back to the matter in hand

@CP: I would be happy to adjust the proposal to allow a "get out" if it turns out that there's no one within remotely effective striking distance.

@Donsig: How would you suggest altering the proposal to make it less in-depth without significantly emasculating it? (note: this is not a sarcastic or rhetorical question! )

 

[donsig]

Originally posted by Eklektikos
@Donsig: How would you suggest altering the proposal to make it less in-depth without significantly emasculating it? (note: this is not a sarcastic or rhetorical question! )

By polling only the first stages of the plan. This would not lock us into anything long term (addressing CP's concerns) while at the same time being more likely to pass the poll since there is less to object to (adressing disorganizer's earlier concerns).

By polling only they early stage of the plan you do not have to stop all long term planning or lobbying. By all means keep the long term goals in front of us. I'm just suggesting you spoon feed us since we've just been born. Less for us to spit back at you if we don't like it.

 

[donsig]

Originally posted by Octavian X
Basically, we rely on josh to build the warriors/settlers. After he takes action, the respective departments may do what they want. We will need lots of cooperation between all of them, though. However, if Josh goes off into his own little world, the council may still override him with a majority vote.

Excuse me, but his All Mightyness is supposed to be implementing the will of the people. We did not elect a governor to make all the decisions about what to build so that we could then do what needs to be done with what he gives us. We should be deciding what we want to happen and then see to it that our governor and department leaders cooperate as need be to carry out our plans.

 

[Eklektikos]

Fair enough. I think you're right, Donsig. I shall post a revised poll, scaling back the future commitments a bit. I shall also be buying you a bib, sounds like you might need one

 

[Eklektikos]

Poll Options:

Do you accept the proposal outlined in the 1st post?
Yes
No
Abstain

First Post:

Poll Duration: 48 hours from posting or until quorum is met, whichever is the later

The discussion leading to this poll can be found in this thread.

Proposal:
I would like to propose that we use the following strategy at the start of the new game:

1. Build a warrior to scout out the terrain
2. Build a second warrior to garrison the capital
3. Build a settler
4. Build a barracks in the capital
5. Begin building archers, initially to scout out the land and increase the AIs perception of our military strength.
   [/list=1]

 

[Eklektikos]

That looking a bit more palatable?

 

[Cyc]

@Dis. I can see this poll as a grasp for a first Military strategy. We don't yet know the surrounding territory or our neighbors, so a basic generic strategy is all that's possible right now. As far as this poll being "settled" by someone else, Eklektikos is not proposing a build queue, but a Military Department stance to be considered by the DP, the Governor, and the citizens. I see nothing wrong with this poll. We will have a good 3-4 turn chats to review this strategy and adjust if necessary. I think this makes more sense than a 15 tech Science queue.

 

[donsig]

Especially a 15 tech science queue made on the fly during a turn chat...

I like the poll Mr. War Minister. Not sure if I'd vote yes on it though. The barracks thing seems iffy. I have to check on the produciton potential of our capital before deciding.

BTW - make sure my bib says 'I survived PI#6 (I think)' or I won't wear it.

 

[Eklektikos]

I like the barracks whether we follow through with the rest of my plans afterwards or not.

If (the Other One forbid!) we end up reverting to settler construction in our capital after building just one or two archers, then the barracks will mean our pitifully small military will at least be fielding the most powerful units it can possibly build.

If we choose to go forth to subjugate our rivals as I suggest, then the extra hit point and all that it implies (tougher units, one step away from being potential Great Leader producers) would stand us in very good stead.

 

[Plux]

Athough a newbie citizen I would go with Grandmaster's idea: in the time we are researching Iron Working (40 turns) we can build two or three warriors, depending on when a settler can be build. After the settler I would indeed recommend some barracks to produce more veteran soldiers. But in stead of building archers I think it's better to produce more warriors to upgrade them to swordsmen. Of course this is only a good idea if after 40 turns we find out if we have some iron nearby, but if so, I think warriors/swordsmen are better, especially playing the Germans. Swordsmen have a higher likekihood to win battles, and, playing militaristic, to promote after battles, thus more promotions to elites/leaders.

With Science slider on 1 science/turn for 40 turn research we generate the gold for the big swordsmen upgrade.

Basically it all comes down to where the iron is after 40 turns. And of course where our closest neighbour is.

 

[Grandmaster]

From the surrounding terrain we can pretty much guess whether or not we'll get iron. If we're in a mountainous area, we'll most likely get some iron and should go ahead with a sword rush. With hills we still have an ok chance. Othewise, we'd have to go for archers. But lets remember that even the extra time needed to develope sword capability won't hurt us, as when we're done other civs will most likely still be working on bronze or will be just starting iron (because of our bronze advantage.) Just something to keep in mind.