Proposal of a different Turkish UP (urgent)

[Rhye]

I see that despite my effort, the Turks still have problems with their cities. They're often choking in the middle of arabian or indepedent culture.

I need you to know how do you rate the current UP. Is it useful? Would you, as a player, trade it with a UP that instead grants a cultural conversion of the plots surrounding Turkish cities? (in that case, a proper name of the power should be found: "assimilation"? "Pomaks"? )

 

[a1Basco]

maybe a UP that makes it easier to have vassals? Like, maybe certain nations WANT to be vassals of the Ottomans...

 

[Riker]

I'm playing as the turks, their UP is strong. You can beeline to gunpowder and pwn everyone else with janizzers and cannons. But, the only way to be not chocked in arabian/independent culture is war. Greece is an easy prey, but you have to wait for the first plague to free as-sur and ninua from arabian culture (basically taking Jerusalem and Ur, and Babili - which in my game wasn't there), or at least I did that way.
My real problem was with the 3rd objective, with civs that refused to capitulate and others which decided to drop me just before the deadline...
I don't think the Ai could perform well with Mehemet II, due to cultural problems, but a player can take the surrounding areas without too much difficulty

 

[Riker]

maybe a UP that makes it easier to have vassals? Like, maybe certain nations WANT to be vassals of the Ottomans...

AFTER the deadline you'll discover taht everyone wants to be your vassal. I managed to have Egypt, India, Russia and Japan as vassals at the same time, with their territory whole, even if it comported a total war and a useless weight on my economy. But it was cool...

 

[Mercenary82]

The current Turkish UP is pretty good, although I think a UP that converts culture would be much more useful to players, and more importantly the AI, who almost always has problems as Turkey.

 

[Elhoim]

Yeah, I think that a cultural bonus would help the AI greatly.

 

[Rhye]

so, as they're both good powers, would you change it or not?

 

[mitsho]

I would vote for something cultural/Assimilation ("Timar" to have a Turkish name?) so that not only a human Turk has a chance, but also an AI-one

mitsho

 

[Barak]

I have noticed in several games that a culturally strong Arabia, Babylon and or Greece push the AI Turkish civ into a corner that they may not ever get out of. I have also seen the AI controlled Turks control a larger area when their neighbors are weak. The human can play this civ much better than the AI can I have found. I do think that the starting position could be helped by a cultural push. As-Sur is almost always revolting back to Arabia when they are strong, and I have also encountered Byzantion pushing on the Turkish cultural starting point.

Is there a happy medium between the 2 UPs? any way they could be combined?

 

[captain beaver]

I would suggest keeping the present UP, but add as a special bonus 1000 culture to turks cities when they appear at the beginning. It would help the AI a lot.

 

[Elhoim]

I´ve seen them many times being choked by independent civs, usually the remnants of the Babylonian empire.

 

[SadoMacho]

The UP with the siege is good for human players, but not for the AI. I hardly ever see that Istanbul was taken by the IA Turks. I would like to see a UP that helps the IA to get a strong Turkish nation, so maybe the culturral conversion idea is better than the current UP.

 

[Mercenary82]

I would say change the UP to cultural conversion, since the AI does so poorly as Turkey.

 

[botur2young]

The current UP would be fine if you could make the AI know how to use it.

 

[Barak]

Perhaps we could give the Turkish capital (or all newly spawned capitals for that matter) a boost in culture per turn? The biggest problem with the Turks is that they spawn with zero culture in the midst of very old established civs. Pushing back the Greek, Babylonian and/or Arabian culture is often tough to do, especially since the AI does not stress culture buildings enough.

 

[Rhye]

they already have a boost - it's in the surrounding cities where they're crippled

 

[Whitefire]

Would giving them a second UP make them too powerful? They would have the current UP and a 50 culture bonus in every city they conquer.

 

[MrThing]

The Turkish situation is difficult for the AI, which does not know how to divide and conquor very well. Is it possible to make them go after Grecce more often?

From a player perspective it is not a big problem, since there will always be at lead one neighbour that you can take out right away in order to make some space for yourself.

 

[knigh+]

The biggest problem with the Turks is that they spawn with zero culture in the midst of very old established civs. Pushing back the Greek, Babylonian and/or Arabian culture is often tough to do, especially since the AI does not stress culture buildings enough.

Historically that was not a problem, because nomadic Turks inherited the cultures they conquered. Ottomans used Byzantine clerks to modify existing laws to form their own system for example. Before that, Seljuks similarly incorporated Persian and Arabic elements into their civ. You could have Turks retain a significant part of the culture of the cities they conquer for the first X turns, to simulate their transition from nomadic life to settled life.

 

[Rhye]

It's about time to decide.
go here
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=208027