I am working on a Mod which will fix some of the problems of Civ 5, specifically its slowness due to everything taking massively too long to build. Additionally, the weakness of many of the buildings of the game (which I feel are basically pointless to build due to high cost, small effect, and maintenance cost). For example, Garden at +25% GPP is rediculous, due to the mechanics of how great people work. Even stuff like Watermill is massively expensive for the return you get.
Regarding Tile yields, I want to get closer to Civ 4, where you could actually generate decent production (mines give 2 production for example), and in which bonuses are more special (not just lame +1s).
Since we cant actually make a mod effectively yet without the SDK, here are my proposed changes and rationale. In general, late game stuff was more overprices and got reduced more. Stuff I felt was quite useful such as science and happy buildigns have smaller reductions. Stuff that seemed bad got greater reductions. Maintenance is significantly reduced.
My primary consideration for choosing costs was "How much would this building have cost in Civ 4".
Buildings:
Seaport: 140 to 60, maint 2 to 0.
Stable: 100 to 60, maint 1 to 0.
Watermill 120 to 60, maint 2 to 0.
Circus: 150 to 120, maint 3 to 1.
Forge: 150 to 80, maint 2 to 1.
Windmill: 180 to 80, maint 2 to 1.
Hydro plant: 600 to 240, maint 3 to 2.
Solar plant: 600 to 240, maint 3 to 2.
Mint: 120 to 80.
Observatory: 180 to 150, maint 2 to 1.
Monastery: 120 to 80, maint 2 to 0.
Garden: 120 to 100, maint 2 to 1. Great people bonus from 25% to 100%!
Lighthouse: 80 to 60, maint 1 to 0.
Harbor: 80 to 60, maint 3 to 2.
Colosseum: 150 to 100, maint 3 to 2.
Theatre: 300 to 160, maint 5 to 3.
Stadium: 450 to 240, maint 6 to 4.
Monument: 60 to 40, maint 1 to 0.
Temple: 120 to 80, maint 1 to 0.
Opera House: 220 to 120, maint 3 to 1.
Museum: 350 to 160, maint 3 to 1.
Broadcast Tower: 600 to 240, maint 3 to 1.
Armory: 130 to 80, maint 3 to 1.
Military Academy: 350 to 160, maint 3 to 2.
Arsenal: 350 to 160, maint 3 to 1.
Walls: 100 to 60, maint 1 to 0.
Castle: 180 to 100, maint 3 to 1.
Military Base: 450 to 200, maint 4 to 2.
Granary: 100 to 60, maint 1 to 0.
Hospital 400 to 90, maint 2 to 0. (Cost is very low because city growth costs are now exponential. This really helps only moderately)
Medical Lab: 500 to 120, maint 3 to 0. (Cost is very low because city growth costs are now exponential. This really helps only moderately)
Workshop: 100 to 80, maint 2 to 0, Production bonus increased from 20% to 25%.
Factory: 300 to 150, maint 3 to 1.
Nuclear Plant 600 to 240, maint 3 to 2.
Spaceship factory 450 to 240, maint 3 to 2.
Market: 120 to 60.
Bank: 220 to 120.
Stock Exchange: 650 to 150.
Library unchanged (80)
University 200 to 160.
Public school: 350 to 200, maint 3 to 2.
Laboratory: 600 to 240, maint 3 to 2.
Wonders: Reduce endgame wonders and midgame wonders some. Reduce bad early game wonders some like Colossus and Pyramids. Increase good early game wonders like Great Library and Stonehenge slightly.
Unit Costs:
In general I would reduce unit costs somewhat, like buildings. Not sure how exactly. Worker and Settler probably stay the same. However, I dont think you have to reduce unit costs much at all, as you dont need a ton of them due to one unit per tile. Early game units would be mostly unchanged, late game would become cheaper as they are crazy right now.
I would also balance some unit stregnths, for example currently Horsemen are broken as hell (and Greek companion cavalry more so), I would reduce their strength somewhat, for example.
Terrain and Improvements:
Forest gives 2 production instead of 1. LIKE EVERY CIV GAME EVER.
Mine Gives +2 Production instead of 1 (needed to make reasonable production possible).
Since Mine is better, Farm needs to be better as well. (2 production is better than 2 food, and the 2 food requires tech). But 2 food base and 3 with tech would be too much imo. Therefore:
Farm Gives +1 food +1 gold! (One gold is much weaker than one food or production).
Yes I realize that this means you mine rivers and farm non rivers. Thats annoying. But I cant come up with something better. If you can, propose it.
Trading post is very weak and I want it to give science. It annoys me that there arent science improvements (not counting the great person).
Trading post gives +2 gold +1 science. This should bring it up to par with farm and mine.
Specialist Improvements:
In general, I am going to make these better by giving gold. They werent good enough, plus I made other improvements better so the opportunity cost is bigger.
I want these bonuses to be of similar size to Civ 4. They are now going to be about 4 'things' better than a standard improvement that gives +2. Note that 2 gold is around as valuable as one other thing, so 2 gold counts as a 'thing'.
Academy (Scientist): +5 science +2 gold. (Was 5 science). This is my trading post plus 4 science.
Manufactory (Engineer): +5 production +2 gold. (Was 3 production LOL). This is a mine plus 3 production and 2 gold.
Customs House (Merchant): +2 Food +8 gold. (Was 4 gold FACEPALM!). This is now a farm plus 8 gold.
Landmark(Artist): +4 culture +4 gold. (Was 4 culture). Represents tourism bonus.
Resources Tiles:
Strategic and Happy resoruces:
All strategic resource tiles requiring a mine give +2 production when improved instead of +1, because mines give +2 now.
Happy resources are already darn good, I didnt improve them further.
Marble I weakened to be like other happy resources instead of also giving production. Getting happy AND wonder bonus is already powerful enough.
Bonus Resources:
All bonus resources improvements yields changed to giving +2 things instead of 1.
Cattle: +2 production not +1.
Sheep: +1 Food +1 Production (not 2 food).
All the many things that gave +1 gold now give +2.
Potential Concerns:
I may be giving players too much gold, with various boosts to it from improvements, and reducing maintenance of buildings. I want you to get more to allow rush buying, culture buying, etc, and to combat the crazy endgame maintenance and high maintenance of puppet states.
I do think that city state alliances are too good and this makes them easier, so I would also recommend we increase costs to buy city state friendship. (I would also reduce city state friendship given for quests).
Utilmately this is mod is of course in a beta state and would require testing to become good, but I think its a good start at fixing some of the problems of Civ V. (Of course, we still have to tackle the larger issue of an AI mod to make the AI not suck, but I will leave that to others).
Secondly, I worry that giving more science output (trading posts) may make teching a bit too easy. However, I think this speedup will be needed since building costs would be reduced so much. (Really, I am chopping turns off the game length).
Regarding Tile yields, I want to get closer to Civ 4, where you could actually generate decent production (mines give 2 production for example), and in which bonuses are more special (not just lame +1s).
Since we cant actually make a mod effectively yet without the SDK, here are my proposed changes and rationale. In general, late game stuff was more overprices and got reduced more. Stuff I felt was quite useful such as science and happy buildigns have smaller reductions. Stuff that seemed bad got greater reductions. Maintenance is significantly reduced.
My primary consideration for choosing costs was "How much would this building have cost in Civ 4".
Buildings:
Seaport: 140 to 60, maint 2 to 0.
Stable: 100 to 60, maint 1 to 0.
Watermill 120 to 60, maint 2 to 0.
Circus: 150 to 120, maint 3 to 1.
Forge: 150 to 80, maint 2 to 1.
Windmill: 180 to 80, maint 2 to 1.
Hydro plant: 600 to 240, maint 3 to 2.
Solar plant: 600 to 240, maint 3 to 2.
Mint: 120 to 80.
Observatory: 180 to 150, maint 2 to 1.
Monastery: 120 to 80, maint 2 to 0.
Garden: 120 to 100, maint 2 to 1. Great people bonus from 25% to 100%!
Lighthouse: 80 to 60, maint 1 to 0.
Harbor: 80 to 60, maint 3 to 2.
Colosseum: 150 to 100, maint 3 to 2.
Theatre: 300 to 160, maint 5 to 3.
Stadium: 450 to 240, maint 6 to 4.
Monument: 60 to 40, maint 1 to 0.
Temple: 120 to 80, maint 1 to 0.
Opera House: 220 to 120, maint 3 to 1.
Museum: 350 to 160, maint 3 to 1.
Broadcast Tower: 600 to 240, maint 3 to 1.
Armory: 130 to 80, maint 3 to 1.
Military Academy: 350 to 160, maint 3 to 2.
Arsenal: 350 to 160, maint 3 to 1.
Walls: 100 to 60, maint 1 to 0.
Castle: 180 to 100, maint 3 to 1.
Military Base: 450 to 200, maint 4 to 2.
Granary: 100 to 60, maint 1 to 0.
Hospital 400 to 90, maint 2 to 0. (Cost is very low because city growth costs are now exponential. This really helps only moderately)
Medical Lab: 500 to 120, maint 3 to 0. (Cost is very low because city growth costs are now exponential. This really helps only moderately)
Workshop: 100 to 80, maint 2 to 0, Production bonus increased from 20% to 25%.
Factory: 300 to 150, maint 3 to 1.
Nuclear Plant 600 to 240, maint 3 to 2.
Spaceship factory 450 to 240, maint 3 to 2.
Market: 120 to 60.
Bank: 220 to 120.
Stock Exchange: 650 to 150.
Library unchanged (80)
University 200 to 160.
Public school: 350 to 200, maint 3 to 2.
Laboratory: 600 to 240, maint 3 to 2.
Wonders: Reduce endgame wonders and midgame wonders some. Reduce bad early game wonders some like Colossus and Pyramids. Increase good early game wonders like Great Library and Stonehenge slightly.
Unit Costs:
In general I would reduce unit costs somewhat, like buildings. Not sure how exactly. Worker and Settler probably stay the same. However, I dont think you have to reduce unit costs much at all, as you dont need a ton of them due to one unit per tile. Early game units would be mostly unchanged, late game would become cheaper as they are crazy right now.
I would also balance some unit stregnths, for example currently Horsemen are broken as hell (and Greek companion cavalry more so), I would reduce their strength somewhat, for example.
Terrain and Improvements:
Forest gives 2 production instead of 1. LIKE EVERY CIV GAME EVER.
Mine Gives +2 Production instead of 1 (needed to make reasonable production possible).
Since Mine is better, Farm needs to be better as well. (2 production is better than 2 food, and the 2 food requires tech). But 2 food base and 3 with tech would be too much imo. Therefore:
Farm Gives +1 food +1 gold! (One gold is much weaker than one food or production).
Yes I realize that this means you mine rivers and farm non rivers. Thats annoying. But I cant come up with something better. If you can, propose it.
Trading post is very weak and I want it to give science. It annoys me that there arent science improvements (not counting the great person).
Trading post gives +2 gold +1 science. This should bring it up to par with farm and mine.
Specialist Improvements:
In general, I am going to make these better by giving gold. They werent good enough, plus I made other improvements better so the opportunity cost is bigger.
I want these bonuses to be of similar size to Civ 4. They are now going to be about 4 'things' better than a standard improvement that gives +2. Note that 2 gold is around as valuable as one other thing, so 2 gold counts as a 'thing'.
Academy (Scientist): +5 science +2 gold. (Was 5 science). This is my trading post plus 4 science.
Manufactory (Engineer): +5 production +2 gold. (Was 3 production LOL). This is a mine plus 3 production and 2 gold.
Customs House (Merchant): +2 Food +8 gold. (Was 4 gold FACEPALM!). This is now a farm plus 8 gold.
Landmark(Artist): +4 culture +4 gold. (Was 4 culture). Represents tourism bonus.
Resources Tiles:
Strategic and Happy resoruces:
All strategic resource tiles requiring a mine give +2 production when improved instead of +1, because mines give +2 now.
Happy resources are already darn good, I didnt improve them further.
Marble I weakened to be like other happy resources instead of also giving production. Getting happy AND wonder bonus is already powerful enough.
Bonus Resources:
All bonus resources improvements yields changed to giving +2 things instead of 1.
Cattle: +2 production not +1.
Sheep: +1 Food +1 Production (not 2 food).
All the many things that gave +1 gold now give +2.
Potential Concerns:
I may be giving players too much gold, with various boosts to it from improvements, and reducing maintenance of buildings. I want you to get more to allow rush buying, culture buying, etc, and to combat the crazy endgame maintenance and high maintenance of puppet states.
I do think that city state alliances are too good and this makes them easier, so I would also recommend we increase costs to buy city state friendship. (I would also reduce city state friendship given for quests).
Utilmately this is mod is of course in a beta state and would require testing to become good, but I think its a good start at fixing some of the problems of Civ V. (Of course, we still have to tackle the larger issue of an AI mod to make the AI not suck, but I will leave that to others).
Secondly, I worry that giving more science output (trading posts) may make teching a bit too easy. However, I think this speedup will be needed since building costs would be reduced so much. (Really, I am chopping turns off the game length).
.
lol
