Proposed changes to Constitution

[Kentonio]

Firstly, just a quick note to the current President and Ministers. This thread in no way critisizes the job you guys have done so far. Although it is early days, so far everything appears to run smoothly, however these changes are proposed to prevent future conflicts that may arise.


1: Section C point 3. 'President can only be elected from remaining cabinet members'

I believe this MUST be changed immediately! Elections take place only once every real time month. This means that for become President would take a minimum of two months.This may seem ok at first thought but when you consider that the first president is not elected by the people this term becomes a bit undemocratic. Also, what happens when a government acts outside the wishes of its citizens and leads the country to the brink of ruin? You will notice that in an impeachment the decision on guilt is made by the other cabinet members.

Secondly, I propose an emergency measure to be added to the constitution, only to be called upon in times of acute national emergency, whereby a citizen can call for a poll asking for a dissolution of government and an immediate election. This would of course have to be carefully judged apon by the moderator and would probably (and hopefully) never be used. It would however give the citizens a democratic safeguard against any cabinet tyranny.

Finally I think it could be worth rethinking Section B Point 8 'There will be NO political parties.' Whilst I would definately be against any reproduction of real political parties it could be a lot of fun to allow the creation of say the 'Peoples Pacifist Front', or the 'Democratic Green Party' or for instance the 'National Liberal Warmongers' I reckon it would allow the citizens a lot more involvement if they were allowed to built parties in this way and it would certainly create a lot more personalities for election time, rather than new nominees being virtual unknowns.

Anyhow, thats just my 2 cents worth, what does everyone think?

Kentonio

 

[Falcon02]

I must say I do agree with the first point, the people should be able to call for elections and elect the President and then the President can chose his cabinet from there.

However, Emergencies as Kentonio described is already covered by impeachment. And, I don't really see the need for political parties, it would just make it much more complicated than it needs to be.

Well, that's my two cents.

 

[eyrei]

The stipulation that the president must be elected from the cabinet ministers is there to ensure that the election is not decided based on superficial qualities, such as a citizens alias or signature, and to avoid placing someone in the position who is not qualified. The people are given a chance to judge the competency of the cabinet members during their tenure on the cabinet, and so can make an informed decision as to that persons qualifications to lead the nation.

The current cabinet is primarily composed of individuals who took the initiative necessary to get this game underway. Beyond the fact that many of the citizens in the empire were "recruited' by the current administration, we also helped The Duck of Flanders to amend the constitution to suite Civ3. All of us are competent players of the game at hand, most are avid posters in these forums, and to the best of my knowledge, capable of comprimise on almost all issues. If the citizenry does not feel we are capable or deserving of the positions we are in, they have the power to impeach. There will be an election in one month, and I believe that most of the cabinet will remain for another term.

Finally, the original post in this thread seems to be a somewhat paranoid political ploy to destroy the peoples' faith in their government, so that anarchy might reign.


Normally, only a cabinet member can propose a change to the constitution, I believe. However, because the current administration was not elected, I do not see a problem allowing citizens to post reasonable amendments for the rest of this term. This decision is probably up to the Duck of Flanders.

 

[Chieftess]

Originally posted by Falcon02
I must say I do agree with the first point, the people should be able to call for elections and elect the President and then the President can chose his cabinet from there.

However, Emergencies as Kentonio described is already covered by impeachment. And, I don't really see the need for political parties, it would just make it much more complicated than it needs to be.

Well, that's my two cents.

Aye.

I agree too. I gave some suggestions earlier, but some said that was too much like a republic (hey, I tried. ). The above mentioned article sounds like a republic to me.

 

[TheDuckOfFlanders]

I believe this MUST be changed immediately! Elections take place only once every real time month. This means that for become President would take a minimum of two months.This may seem ok at first thought but when you consider that the first president is not elected by the people this term becomes a bit undemocratic. Also, what happens when a government acts outside the wishes of its citizens and leads the country to the brink of ruin? You will notice that in an impeachment the decision on guilt is made by the other cabinet members.

Like eyrei said ,the president must be a person that has atleast some experience with Demo game's and is somebody that we can trust on.Therefore it has been made a rule that the president can only be elected from the cabinet member's.
The fact that the first term cabinet has been put toghether by me ,is because i wanted a smooth start of this game ,wich is not easy to organize.Besides it would have been stupid to hold election's at time that not everybody is joining in yet ,and when nobody has a clear idea yet what these position's involve.There will be plenty of ellection's in the future ,so enough possibilety for everybody.And the cabinet is not put toghether by the president solely ,every position is voted on seperatly during ellection's time.

Next ellection's are at the end of this month ,if you don't like the current gouverment vote against it and nominate yourself for a leadership position.

Secondly, I propose an emergency measure to be added to the constitution, only to be called upon in times of acute national emergency, whereby a citizen can call for a poll asking for a dissolution of government and an immediate election. This would of course have to be carefully judged apon by the moderator and would probably (and hopefully) never be used. It would however give the citizens a democratic safeguard against any cabinet tyranny.

That would be a nightmare to implement ,considering you would eliminate the whole cabinet ,our nation would fall into anarchy and it would hurt the game bad.As i said ,if you don't agree with the cabinet ,then vote against them.
when i look at the democracy's of this world ,nowhere a normal citizin can let a whole gouverment fall.In my country if people don't agree with the gouverment ,then they have to elect another one in the next ellections.

There is no such thing as cabinet tyranny.Even as citizin you have the possibilety to demand for a poll for a specific matter.That would not be possible in the democracy's of the real world.

Finally I think it could be worth rethinking Section B Point 8 'There will be NO political parties.' Whilst I would definately be against any reproduction of real political parties it could be a lot of fun to allow the creation of say the 'Peoples Pacifist Front', or the 'Democratic Green Party' or for instance the 'National Liberal Warmongers' I reckon it would allow the citizens a lot more involvement if they were allowed to built parties in this way and it would certainly create a lot more personalities for election time, rather than new nominees being virtual unknowns.

IMO this would make the game more un-democratic.if you gona make party's everybody will want to be in the most popular one and it will become a game of friends-politic's ,where one can only be elected when he is part of a powerfull party.This would make it even much harder for a new citizin to get in a cabinet position.

Normally, only a cabinet member can propose a change to the constitution, I believe. However, because the current administration was not elected, I do not see a problem allowing citizens to post reasonable amendments for the rest of this term. This decision is probably up to the Duck of Flanders.

A cabinet member can propose a change to the constitution ,only the cabinet must vote on this change.

 

[Kentonio]

LOL! strong words by the administration there

Few bits, you are actually saying a citizen cant even 'propose' changes to the constitution for discussion?!?

IMO this would make the game more un-democratic.if you gona make party's everybody will want to be in the most popular one and it will become a game of friends-politic's ,where one can only be elected when he is part of a powerfull party.This would make it even much harder for a new citizin to get in a cabinet position.

I dont know, the reason I suggested it was to provide a higher level of interactivity for the rest of the games players rather than being very much fringe characters.

@Eyrie

The stipulation that the president must be elected from the cabinet ministers is there to ensure that the election is not decided based on superficial qualities, such as a citizens alias or signature

COME ON! lets be fair dude, knowing the people on this board is that really likely?!? Post a message on tanks and watch how many replies you get arguiong about the production model number These are not superficial peoiple for the most part.

As for the current cabinet composition I suggest you read the first statement of this thread. At present there are a cool set of people in place. The suggestions I made were NOT a 'somewhat paranoid political ploy to destroy the peoples' faith in their government, so that anarchy might reign.' but the kind of safeguards you will find iin most constitution like documents.

Kentonio

 

[eyrei]

Originally posted by Kentonio
LOL! strong words by the administration there

As for the current cabinet composition I suggest you read the first statement of this thread. At present there are a cool set of people in place. The suggestions I made were NOT a 'somewhat paranoid political ploy to destroy the peoples' faith in their government, so that anarchy might reign.' but the kind of safeguards you will find iin most constitution like documents.

Kentonio

Yeah. I was just joking, and trying to role play. I do believe some of your propositions would eventually lead to anarchy, though.

 

[Kentonio]

Anarchy? hmm... ive always been more of a totalitarian kind of guy myself Ah well, theres always time to try new things

Kentonio