Proposed Changes to the Democracy Game

Sarevok

Civ3 Scenario Creator
Joined
Dec 27, 2002
Messages
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Location
Sacramento, CA
Citizens of Fanatica,

As you are all well aware, there have been many issues with this democracy game, and how it has been run. There are many problems that need adressing and we need to develop ways to deal with them. Here are a few of the problems I have noticed:

1. The turnchat's are stopped at many times because of judicial squabbles or the lack of clear istructions by leaders.

2. The Judiciary is overworked, and some people involved there are manipulating the laws and taking advantage of that.

3. There are "unwritten rules" that exist in our constitution. Rules that affect how the game works but are never clarified.

4. The Department structure, though good for now will be overworked positions by the time we hit the industrial age.

5. There is a paranoid atmosphere amongst leaders that there are people specifically watching their actions hoping to CC them.

6. Although it is a democracy game, an "executive elite" pretty much rules the game and all the things involved.

These are just some of the problems out there, and they need to be fixed in order to make the democracy game a better place for all. The changes I propose are:

1. The turnchat is stopped typically because instructins are not issued or not specificed. I would propose tighter laws or perhaps threat of punishment as an incensive for leaders to complete their instructions and to keep the game moving along as it should.

2. The Judiciary needs a more efficient way of handling its procedures. Both Peri and Octavian X have proposed methods that focus on cooperation between the ones with the dispute to deal with squabbles before they become CC trials. This approach may be a good method to deal with this and lessesn the work load they face.

3. The "unwritten rules" are rules created by the "executive elite" that are not in the constitution. They are things done that would not be legal to this constitution, but are still bypassed. This is a problem for new players, and it has driven many players away. Perhaps either writing these rules down or removing them entirely will fix this.

4. Departments like T&T and internal affairs by the time we hit the industrial age will be incredibly overworked in planning. Already, there are some things they do not do simply because they do not have the time to do such things. I propose that Either Octavian's proposal or Strider's proposal be accepted into creating new branches in order to ease these department's workloads.

5. The paranoia is caused by the tight ruleset. Unfortunately, this ruleset is actually pretty good and needs little change. What does need change is to remove the paranoid climate. Again, Octavian and Peri's solutions seem like a good solution for this problem, and it may be a good sign for the future to let them go through with it.

6. This is pretty simple, there are palyers here that are vetreans from the beginning here. These players, highly skilled in their jobs however resist changes proposed and wish to keep the current order. Because of this, new members are few, and those that come have a harsh road up ahead in trying to figure the system out. I myself have only been playing since Term 6 of DG3, but i will be entering my 3rd term at an office (1 Deputy, 2 Minister terms, all in the defense department). I myself know the harsh road I had to take and I forced myself to be recognized. A more "Open door" policy may help this situation considerably. I have proposed a new option in ministry's for new players who can basically become "apprentices" and learn the skills required for the positions. There is a discussion and a poll on this, and it may be a good solution to making a balance between the elite and the new players.

These are the problems that I generally see with the democracy game and ways that we may be able to fix them. Some are resistant to changes, but I think none of these changes are too drastic or extreme. Hopefully, after some discussion, a general list of changes to improve the game can be made, and it can be a great place for all fanaticans.

- Sarevok
 
I liked the DG2 ruleset, actually... It was much more fun than this one and there was much more participation.
 
You talk of an overworked Judiciary, but you then suggest that the best way to solve these problems is to create more rules. I vehemently disagree with this logic.

I would suggest that one of the biggest problems we have is the inclusion in our rules of procedures and step-by-step procedures for how things should be done. This creates an atmosphere of the rules dictating what can be done, instead of what cannot be done. There is a huge difference between the two.

I would further suggest that the best solution is to reduce the size of the ruleset as opposed to increasing it.
 
I agree with FortyJ. The best way to lessen the legal controversies that everyone really doesn't like is to not have that large a ruleset to begin with. The only solutions that should be considered are those that don't add anything to the current ruleset - they should be rewrites, or deletions.
 
Originally posted by FortyJ

I would suggest that one of the biggest problems we have is the inclusion in our rules of procedures and step-by-step procedures for how things should be done. This creates an atmosphere of the rules dictating what can be done, instead of what cannot be done. There is a huge difference between the two.


With this, I completely agree.
 
as do I, I had mentioned above that these were not all of the issues, just some of them. That one is one that I had missed and it is something that should be fixed ASAP
 
Sarevok's proposals in bold.

1.The turnchat is stopped typically because instructins are not issued or not specificed. I would propose tighter laws or perhaps threat of punishment as an incensive for leaders to complete their instructions and to keep the game moving along as it should.

In the absence of leader instructions the DP has authority to make any decisions needed. There is no need to stop for lack of instructions. I showed in term three of the last demogame that ten turns can be played every chat. We just need a president that is not afraid to move along.

2.The Judiciary needs a more efficient way of handling its procedures. Both Peri and Octavian X have proposed methods that focus on cooperation between the ones with the dispute to deal with squabbles before they become CC trials. This approach may be a good method to deal with this and lessesn the work load they face.

Yes, the judicial procedures need to go. I would like to point out that we have had very few CCs in this game. Many that have been requested have been withdrawn and some of these turned into judicial reviews. All in all the spirit of cooperation in the demogame is high. However, the goal of having no CCs whatsoever is quite unrealistic. You can't make an omelet without breaking a few eggs. ;)

3. The "unwritten rules" are rules created by the "executive elite" that are not in the constitution. They are things done that would not be legal to this constitution, but are still bypassed. This is a problem for new players, and it has driven many players away. Perhaps either writing these rules down or removing them entirely will fix this.

I can't comment on the specific unwritten rules unless I know what they are. Care to list them Sarevok? In general the best way to combat unwritten rules is to follow the rules we have as they are written. Trouble is our rulesset as written has many clauses that are not liked here and there. Many try to ignore the parts they don't like. By ignoring some laws we basically invalidate them all leaving ourselves open to those who want to resurrect old unwritten laws and use them instead of what we all agreed on. The best way to combat unwritten rules is to enfore the rules we have and legally change those we do not want any longer.

4. Departments like T&T and internal affairs by the time we hit the industrial age will be incredibly overworked in planning. Already, there are some things they do not do simply because they do not have the time to do such things. I propose that Either Octavian's proposal or Strider's proposal be accepted into creating new branches in order to ease these department's workloads.

There is nothing what so ever to prevent a leader from *hiring* additional help. Since anyone is allowed to post discussion and poll threads a leader can certainly ask someone to help out. Remember, the leader should not be doing all the planning anyway - we citizens should be doing the planning! What the elected leader cannot do is have someone (other than a properly appointed deputy) post legal game play instructions.

5. The paranoia is caused by the tight ruleset. Unfortunately, this ruleset is actually pretty good and needs little change. What does need change is to remove the paranoid climate. Again, Octavian and Peri's solutions seem like a good solution for this problem, and it may be a good sign for the future to let them go through with it.

Removing the paranoid climate must be done one person at a time and (unfortunately) that change is going to have to come from within each individual. Frankly, some citizens simply need to grow up.

6.This is pretty simple, there are palyers here that are vetreans from the beginning here. These players, highly skilled in their jobs however resist changes proposed and wish to keep the current order. Because of this, new members are few, and those that come have a harsh road up ahead in trying to figure the system out. I myself have only been playing since Term 6 of DG3, but i will be entering my 3rd term at an office (1 Deputy, 2 Minister terms, all in the defense department). I myself know the harsh road I had to take and I forced myself to be recognized. A more "Open door" policy may help this situation considerably. I have proposed a new option in ministry's for new players who can basically become "apprentices" and learn the skills required for the positions. There is a discussion and a poll on this, and it may be a good solution to making a balance between the elite and the new players.


The biggest problem is that if you don't download the save and look at it you don't know what's going on in the Civ game. Without knowing what's going on it's difficult to participate. Also, even if you go to the trouble of looking at the save you have to be at the chat to be heard. Get relevant info posted on the forums and get rid of the chat and you'll get more particiapation.
 
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