Proposed Community Expansion - Help Needed!

[Viregel]

Hey Viregel!

I would be happy to contribute to this expansion, as the theme sounds great!
I have made the Finland Civilization mod a couple of years ago, and Italy similar of yours is now on the works, with Victor Emanuel II as the leader. I love creating graphics very much, but scripting is not my strongest skill, so these mods are made veery slowly...

I have also a 1700-1800s scenario "Rise of the Empires" on the works, which adds some new leaders to old civs, such as Victoria of England.

If I may participate to this project, I would be happy to make some art and ideas for this. A little "portfolio" of some latest works of mine here, Victor Emanuel II, Victoria and Italian Piazza icon.

Those graphics are fantastic. Thank you very much for showing them here! Really, all we need now is time and code. (Also, your Finland civ was the inspiration for mine! Seeing as it probably needs to be updated, do you want to remake it for purposes of the expansion?)

Interesting Although personally I would do one thing here - don't base additional civs on WWI theme. Because we have no good WWI civs and plenty of awesome other civs (check my list - these are the most popular/demanded )



I can definitely help with that



- Expanded World Congress
- Some kind of Coalitions (group alliances)

just one problem - expanded diplomacy and congress will be really difficult to code

In my opinion theme shouldn't be entirely WWI but rather something like Colonialism/XIX century -> before WWII. WWI is too small period

Or if you wanna include Colonialism and Exploration -> XVI century - WWI

Proposed Scenarios
- European WWI
- South America
- Scramble of Africa... Oh wait... Still, can be improved For example, I would add Ashanti, Buganda and Mahdist Sudan here.
- American Civil War... Oh wait... Still, Mexico, Canada and American Indians [Sioux, Cherokee, Shoshone, Iroquis] can be added here
- World Scenario?? (1800/1900 period)
- Russian Civil War (very interesting chaos, giant territories, lack of established frontlines, possibility to kill communists)
- Polish - Bolshevik 1920 War (one giant frontline)/Balkans War (alliance insanity)
- Taiping Rebellion

Only one thing here disappoints me - eurocentrism I mean, it is obvious that this period was Golden Age of Europe, just hoped for expansion which would expand other ares

To start with - Yes, it's incredibly Eurocentric. I tried to use other civs, but they just didn't really work, and I think that in a way Eurocentralism works here. Some of the civs I've chosen are in progress, so it's not complete insanity. I can even attempt to code one or two. For Expanded Diplomacy, someone made a mod a while back that added messengers, diplomats and so on, making the diplomatic world seem better. Of course, I would love to expand the World Congress as well, so if anyone with the programming capabilities comes along, then I would be delighted to make it happen. In terms of scenarios, I only had two there because I don't want to have the entire time taken up by them. Anyway, given the theme of the period BNW missed out between the Renaissance and WWII, what civs would you suggest?

Hmm, as far as Belgium is concerned I could provide you a Leader Screen since I already made one for Hiram's Belgium (haven't told him yet), however I made it for Leopold II.

Link

Still needs some work though.

Thanks! I may be using an alternative leader though, Albert I, who was probably better (he lead the country though WWI). However, it won't go to waste if Hiram's using it.

 

[Krajzen]

Anyway, given the theme of the period BNW missed out between the Renaissance and WWII, what civs would you suggest?

If only from this period:
- Vietnam
- Congo
- Ashanti?
- Mughals
- Sioux/Cherokee/Aymara/Mapuche
- Australia
- Canada/Mexico
- First Leugi Civilisation (for example, Gran Colombia)
- Second Leugi Civilisation (for example, Bolivia)

World Wonders from this period:
- Brooklyn Bridge
- Badshahi Mosque
- Darjeeling Himalayan Railway
- Grand Bazaar
- Smithsonian Institute
- Teatro Colon/Teatro Municipial
- Panama Canal
- something from South Asia
- something else

 

[Hypereon]

Those graphics are fantastic. Thank you very much for showing them here! Really, all we need now is time and code. (Also, your Finland civ was the inspiration for mine! Seeing as it probably needs to be updated, do you want to remake it for purposes of the expansion?)

Thanks!

Yeah, I've been planning an updated version of Finland, but haven't had enough time and motivation for it. Though, I would like to finally update it, at least removing the Siam replacing, and for example changing the UA to your suggestion, I already know how it might be done... And the Sissi, could you provide more info what it should be like?

Italy's actually 70% done (I started it 3 weeks ago), only Civilopedia entries and the Unit (I have Bersagliere) must be done. My UA (Risorgimento: Military units gain +20% Combat Strength during Golden Ages. Specialists provide bonus Culture, Tourism and Gold.) is quite dull, your idea about City-States is much more better, though it would require some hard-core LUA modding, which I unfortunately don't know how to do. ATM, working is in kind of a stagnation, as I have to recover my working morale again from passing my final exam on history

 

[Viregel]

If only from this period:
- Vietnam
- Congo
- Ashanti?
- Mughals
- Sioux/Cherokee/Aymara/Mapuche
- Australia
- Canada/Mexico
- First Leugi Civilisation (for example, Gran Colombia)
- Second Leugi Civilisation (for example, Bolivia)

World Wonders from this period:
- Brooklyn Bridge
- Badshahi Mosque
- Darjeeling Himalayan Railway
- Grand Bazaar
- Smithsonian Institute
- Teatro Colon/Teatro Municipial
- Panama Canal
- something from South Asia
- something else

World Wonders seem good! I'll have to ask Pouakai of I can plagiarise a couple of his. For civs, I really want to do Italy and Finland for it, as they fit well with the theme. In terms of Leugi, I thought Argentina and Mexico because the former was one of the most successful countries during the world wars, and the latter because Zimmerman Telegram, among other things. Kongo seems like a good idea, as does Australia, so I think I'll go with them. Now, the list is something like:

• Australia
• Mexico
• Argentina
• Finland
• Italy
• Kongo
• Belgium
• Serbia
• Hungary

I'd say that while this is still slightly Eurocentric, it does really fit in with the theme. Belgium and Serbia will probably materialise, but if not, I'm willing to use the civs that you suggested in their place.

Thanks!

Yeah, I've been planning an updated version of Finland, but haven't had enough time and motivation for it. Though, I would like to finally update it, at least removing the Siam replacing, and for example changing the UA to your suggestion, I already know how it might be done... And the Sissi, could you provide more info what it should be like?

Italy's actually 70% done (I started it 3 weeks ago), only Civilopedia entries and the Unit (I have Bersagliere) must be done. My UA (Risorgimento: Military units gain +20% Combat Strength during Golden Ages. Specialists provide bonus Culture, Tourism and Gold.) is quite dull, your idea about City-States is much more better, though it would require some hard-core LUA modding, which I unfortunately don't know how to do. ATM, working is in kind of a stagnation, as I have to recover my working morale again from passing my final exam on history

The Sissi unit is pretty much just meant to be a forest scout guy that destroys anyone around it. That is seriously the best description I can get. Also, if it helps, I finished the code for the Sissi a while back, so I'll send that to you at some point.

For Italy, I like your UA as it does make sense. However, I really want a civ that is meant to take city-states by force, and Italy's perfect for that. I'll see if anyone's up for the Lua.

 

[Krajzen]

World Wonders seem good! I'll have to ask Pouakai of I can plagiarise a couple of his. For civs, I really want to do Italy and Finland for it, as they fit well with the theme. In terms of Leugi, I thought Argentina and Mexico because the former was one of the most successful countries during the world wars, and the latter because Zimmerman Telegram, among other things. Kongo seems like a good idea, as does Australia, so I think I'll go with them. Now, the list is something like:

• Australia
• Mexico
• Argentina
  [*]Finland
• Italy
• Kongo
  [*]Belgium
• Serbia
  [*]Hungary

Hungary? Renaissance - WWI is the exact period when Hungary as a state didn't exist

Also sorry but while I love Finland (you are from Finland??) I really don't think it is important enough for this entire period... I mean, it was occupied by Sweden or Russia whole time (with few struggles for independence). Glory of Finland starts since WWII (Talvisota!) and later (Prosperity! Avoiding USSR!). And this is period don't covered by planned expansion.

Finland and Hungary didn't existed as states in renaissance - 1918 period (yeah, I know, Austria - Hungary but we can as well edit Austria for WWI scenario - I don't really think Austria - Hungary is popular and interesting enough to include it as separate civ).

Serbia - yeah, we definitely need some High Quality Serbia. There are some Yugoslavian countries in the workshop but usually there are not High Quality Civs but Medium Quality Civs

Belgium - I am also not sure if it is necessary. Belgium was little rich country but it had virtually no impact on the world apart from Kongo. Including Belgium in WWI scenario would be just waste of space as the whole purpose of this tiny nation would be being immediately conquered by Germany.

You may think I am crazy hater of Europe but no, simply all main Western superpowers from this period are already in game (Great Britain, France, Germany, Austria, Russia, America) with Italy and Serbia possible to create. Other European states from this period were... well, definitely not pariahs, but they had no impact on the world (hell, Serbia and Italy had ridiculously weak economy when compared with other powers, but they are very important from strategic point of view + popular among players).

I wouldn't include such inferior states as Finland/Hungary (nonexisting lol)/Belgium/Switzerland when we can include much more interesting non European POWERS.

Instead of Finland, Hungary and Belgium I would put...

CANDIDATES

- some North American Indians like Cherokee/Sioux (heeeeyyyy, USA - Indian Wars in XIX century?)

- Vietnam extremely popular 'additional civ'

- Mughal Empire/Maratha (heeey, dominating Indian powers in the renaissance - XVIII period which fought with colonial European powers? eventually we could include Maratha but Mughals are way more interesting )

- Durrani Empire http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Durrani_Empire

Afghanistan/Pakistan, perfect period and theme - fought with European colonial powers, already covered by LastSword (and his Durrani is awesome)

- Ashanti Empire

these guys are IMHO the most impressive African state which resisted Europeans, much more impressive than wild Zulu. Gun weaponry, quite big state, and surprisingly effective resistance against BRITISH EMPIRE (it took 50 years and three wars to finally annex Ashanti, and Britain suffered few big defeats during this time)

also - already covered by Last Sword... And very fun civ.



My dream list would be: Australia, Mexico, Argentina, Italy, Serbia, Kongo, Vietnam, Cherokee, Mughals, Durrani, Ashanti. Yeah 11 civs instead of 9. Or eventually the same list without Cherokee and Mughals/Durrani/Ashanti.

 

[COF]

I'll have to agree with the post above.

Personally:
-Vietnam;extremely popular choice.
-Kongo;African Civ and also rather popular.
-Serbia; WWI, it my not be as popular as the ones above but it fits the theme;
-Italy; if you are going for WWI this seems like a reasonable choice;
-A Native NA tribe, Sioux seem popular but Pueblo are a obvious choice too.
-Canada;extremely popular;
-Another Asian civ, Durrani were mentioned but Israel or Timurids would be also welcome imo.
-Argentina; more South America.

 

[Hypereon]

Well, I have no reason not to add both "meaningful civilizations" (Mughals, Vietnam) and "less important" (Finland, Hungary, Belgium) if Viregel those lesser civilizations wants. If we have resources and time, (Mughals are already done by Pouakai, and I have quite complete Finland ready), let's just add more civilizations, why to restrict them to nine!

 

[Viregel]

OK, how about we deviate from the standard nine then? I just need to know the full list of proposed civs, then I can try to compile them. If I get that done by next week, then that's stage one done!

 

[COF]

I'm also for adding new wonders, obviously.

Not sure how many new ones came in BNW but I think these would be a great fit:

-Florence Cathedral
-Empire State Building
-Palace of Versailles
-Pantheon
-Nazca Lines
-Spring Temple Buddha
-Burj Khalifa
-Stari Most
-Kaaba
-If possible rename the in-game Coliseum as Arena, so that the real deal can be a Wonder
-Kiyomizu-dera


What do you think?

 

[Viregel]

I'm all for adding those wonders. Does anyone know how large the splash screen is supposed to be? I kinda want to go and make some. It gives the feeling of progress.

 

[whoward69]

Does anyone know how large the splash screen is supposed to be?

The Reference sub-forum does - http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=499400

 

[Viregel]

The Reference sub-forum does - http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=499400

Thank you! This seems like the best possible location for anything to do with graphics.

 

[TPangolin]

Do we have a name for this project? We could do book titles again perhaps (Great Expectations, The Odyssey, The Sun Also Rises), a quote like "On World's Stage" (paraphrased), One Day More, or something more generic like Empires Rising, Cultural Legacies, Distant Shores.

Anyway, here is my proposal.

Civilizations

Mughals - Pouakai, Leugi, Sukitract, Jan

Australia - TPangolin, Neirai, LS, Ekmek

Canada - Jan, Neirai, TPangolin, LS, Leugi

Nazca - Sukitract, Leugi, Pouakai, Jan

Vietnam - TPangolin, LS, senshidenshi, Krajzen.

Kongo - Tomatekh, Pouakai

Inuit - Leugi, TPangolin, Neirai, LS

Mali - Tomatekh, Ekmek

Switzerland - JFD, Jan

2 Colonial, 2 Native American, 2 Asian, 2 African, 1 European.

Wonders

Ancient - Etemenanki (Babylonian Ziggurat) can be switched out for something with more name recognition
Classical - Monte Albán/El Tajin (Mesoamerican Dig Sites)
Medieval - Ellora Caves (Temples carved into the sides of mountains)
Renaissance - Palace of Versailles (French Palace with huge historical significance) can be switched out for Bagan (Pagan/Burma city full of pagodas)
Industrial - Chateau Frontenac (French Colonial castle/chateau in Quebec)
Modern - Sydney Harbor Bridge (Colossal bridge in one of the most picturesque harbours in the world)
Atomic - Empire State Building (Dominated the NY skyline and was the centerpiece of world attention) can be switched out for Motherland Calls.
Information - Space Elevator (can't wait for this one)

Mechanics

JFD's Cultural Diversity
Expanded World Congress
Great Admiral split into Great Explorer and Great Admiral. Admiral can build Sea Forts, Explorer would have combat strength and embarkability.

Thoughts?

 

[SuperWaffle247]

Just a thought regarding explorers - I've always liked the idea of getting great explorer points through discovering tiles and maybe even other civs. Also, maybe GEs should be able to be expended to found a city?

Regarding the expansion concept as a whole, I would implore the devs to make sure compatability is maintained with the many brilliant civs which are not a part of this pack. So like making sure including Mughals doesn't break using the rest of the India pack and little things like that.

 

[Viregel]

Do we have a name for this project? We could do book titles again perhaps (Great Expectations, The Odyssey, The Sun Also Rises), a quote like "On World's Stage" (paraphrased), One Day More, or something more generic like Empires Rising, Cultural Legacies, Distant Shores.

Anyway, here is my proposal.

Civilizations

Mughals - Pouakai, Leugi, Sukitract, Jan

Australia - TPangolin, Neirai, LS, Ekmek

Canada - Jan, Neirai, TPangolin, LS, Leugi

Nazca - Sukitract, Leugi, Pouakai, Jan

Vietnam - TPangolin, LS, senshidenshi, Krajzen.

Kongo - Tomatekh, Pouakai

Inuit - Leugi, TPangolin, Neirai, LS

Mali - Tomatekh, Ekmek

Switzerland - JFD, Jan

2 Colonial, 2 Native American, 2 Asian, 2 African, 1 European.

Wonders

Ancient - Etemenanki (Babylonian Ziggurat) can be switched out for something with more name recognition
Classical - Monte Albán/El Tajin (Mesoamerican Dig Sites)
Medieval - Ellora Caves (Temples carved into the sides of mountains)
Renaissance - Palace of Versailles (French Palace with huge historical significance) can be switched out for Bagan (Pagan/Burma city full of pagodas)
Industrial - Chateau Frontenac (French Colonial castle/chateau in Quebec)
Modern - Sydney Harbor Bridge (Colossal bridge in one of the most picturesque harbours in the world)
Atomic - Empire State Building (Dominated the NY skyline and was the centerpiece of world attention) can be switched out for Motherland Calls.
Information - Space Elevator (can't wait for this one)

Mechanics

JFD's Cultural Diversity
Expanded World Congress
Great Admiral split into Great Explorer and Great Admiral. Admiral can build Sea Forts, Explorer would have combat strength and embarkability.

Thoughts?

To be honest, I think that all your choices are very strong. However, should we try to include more civilizations than that, due to popular demand? I think it would be perfectly possible to deviate from the standard, so what do people think about that?

Just a thought regarding explorers - I've always liked the idea of getting great explorer points through discovering tiles and maybe even other civs. Also, maybe GEs should be able to be expended to found a city?

Regarding the expansion concept as a whole, I would implore the devs to make sure compatability is maintained with the many brilliant civs which are not a part of this pack. So like making sure including Mughals doesn't break using the rest of the India pack and little things like that.

For Explorers - I like that idea as well! I was actually thinking that Explorers would generate science through exploration as well, which would be pretty fun. As for compatibility - of course. I will aim to have as much compatibility between this and all other mods used.

 

[Hypereon]

At least I would add in Italy, as the artwork for the civ is almost complete. Anybody care to make a 1800-1900s Bersagliere or Alpine model? Otherwise those choices are pretty good, although Mexico would be interesting to add in also.

Of course as a Finn I would support Finland too

For the name, I think Empires Rising would be excellent, and the focus should be from 1700 to 1918. I have some "cover art" in mind too, similar to those of GK and BNW. What about adding Conservatism/Tradition as a new ideology?

 

[Protroid]

I am unsure as to how much I can do to help, but I'd be happy to lend a keyboard if any code is needed, although I need to practice a bit more.

 

[Krajzen]

My ideas.

TITLE IDEAS
Sail and Steel
Sail and Steam
Towards the Sun
Sun Never Sets
Rise of Empires
New Horizons
Forge of Empires

NEW CIVILISATONS

Spoiler :

Most Popular: Kongo, Vietnam, Israel, Tibet, Nazca, Hungary, Australia, Canada, Inuits, Mali, Mughals in my opinion this would be an optimal set
Most Fitting: Kongo, Vietnam, Serbia, Durrani, Argentina, Bolivia/Mexico, Mughals, Australia, Canada

NEW WONDERS - various eras, beautiful art, useful effects

Spoiler :

Brooklyn Bridge, Teatro Colon, Smithsonian Institute, Magellan Expedition, Darjeeling Himalayan Railway/anyting from South Asia, Grand Bazaar, Shanghai Tower, Itsukushima Shrine, Panama Canal, Mesa Verde

FEATURES

Spoiler :

Colonialism - Governor's Palaces, Colonial Settlements, Protectorates, Peaceful CS Annexation, Right to Land, Emigration, Nationalities
Exploration - Archeology expanded, Artifacts [find ancient stuff which provides bonus to the civilisation]
Ideologies Expanded

Spoiler :

Loose ideas:
- Monarchist Ideology
- more... dynamic/spontanenous Revolutions
- Civil Wars
- maybe inclusion of JFD's Sovereignity Revisited Mod? It has a potential to be awesome
- Ecology? Fundamentalism? Liberalism/Conservatism?

Casus Belli and Coalitions

 

[SuperWaffle247]

For a 1700 to 1918, I'd do:

Italy (unified)
Canada
Australia
Vietnam
Sioux
Inuit
Zimbabwe/Ashanti
Afghans/Manchus/Mughals

I'd have a more diverse set but since this is from the mod community, I'll just add all the other civs I want anyway. I just felt the above fit a theme.

Also this of course depends on which devs want to participate. I do have some ideas for the Afghans that I have developed. And I'm working on ideas for Manchuria and Ashanti.

 

[Krajzen]

OK, it seems I have infinite amount of ideas for this expansion pack - I will design something coherent from them and post it here later

In the meantime...

'Civilization is game series based on 4X formula: EXPLORE, EXPAND, EXPLOIT, EXTERMINATE

Explore means players send scouts across a map to reveal surrounding territories.
Expand means players claim new territory by creating new settlements, or sometimes by extending the influence of existing settlements.
Exploit means players gather and use resources in areas they control, and improve the efficiency of that usage.
Exterminate means attacking and eliminating rival players. Since in some games all territory is eventually claimed, eliminating a rival's presence may be the only way to achieve further expansion.' [wikipedia]


Changes made by official expansions:

Gods and Kings - mainly Ancient - Medieval Eras Improved. Exterminate and in much lesser extent Exploit/Expand.

Spoiler :

The Religion System (definitely the biggest change)
Greatly Improved Land and Naval Combat System
Enhanced City States and Espionage
Expanded units [also from WWI era], resources, buildings

So GAK adds more everything (units, buildings, city states, resources) and mainly improves two aspects of the game: early period [ancient - medieval], warfare and Offensive Systems [espionage, fighting for faith and so on]

It greatly improves Domination Victory.

Brave New World - mainly Modern - Information Eras Improved. Exploit.

Spoiler :

International Trade Routes
World Congress
Tourism, Ideologies, Great Works, Archeology [TIGWA]
Social Policies

BNW doesn't add many little changes as GAK but instead introduces new game mechanisms which improve two aspects of the game: peaceful gameplay and late period [modern - information era].

It greatly improves Cultural/Diplomatic Victory.

So now Rising Empires [?] - mainly Renaissance - Modern Era [WWI] Improved. Explore and Expand.

Spoiler :

Exploration
Colonisation
Enhanced Diplomacy and World Congress
More Diversified Civs Gameplay [I am thinking about JFD's incredibly awesome Cultural Groups as well as about 3rd Unique Component]
General Balance

RE doesn't introduce billion of little interesting changes which turn the entire game upside down, this is left Communitas exists Doesn't add lot of good stuff like GAK nor lot of new gameplay features like BNW.
RE makes game more balanced and deeper in terms of Exploration on map, Expanding on this map and Grand Strategy.

It greatly improves... Scientific Victory?