Psi combat

[xchen08]

I recently got into a pretty interesting conversation on SMAX, and I realized that after all these years, I'm still not sure how Psi-combat works. I just know to attack first and use worms if I'm behind in tech. I remember the manual saying that psi-combat ignores normal factors in favor of morale, but just what factors are ignored? Just armor and weapon values? What about defensive terrain bonuses, Sensor and Survey Pod bonuses, height differences, and city defences like Perimeter Defense and Tachyon Field?

Is attacking a worm on a forest/sensor the same as attacking on flat ground? What about using worms to attack a city with Perimeter defence? Are Locusts screwed by AAA tracking? Anyone know? I would test it myself, but I haven't been able to get my SMAX working on Vista.

 

[Pickly]

In psi combat:

Attacker gets a base strength of 3, defender gets 2.

Morale, sensors, and hypnotic trance type abilities effect psi combat, terrain does not. I am not sure about perimeter defenses or AAA tracking.

 

[vyeh]

Since you can't get SMAX working, I did a little scenario editor work for you

(1) armor and weapons are certainly ignored;

(2) defensive terrain bonuses (rocky, forest) do not count; keep in mind that in addition to not getting a fungus bonus if defending against native life units, the native life unit will get a bonus, so it is a double whammy)

(3) sensor and survey pod bonuses do apply;

(4) height differences do not apply unless you are using artillery or a modified alpha(x).txt file;

(5) perimeter defense and tachyon field bonuses do not apply.

(6) native life unit does get the benefit of sensor. but not of forest.

(7) when you use a native life unit to attack a city, it negates perimeter defense;

(8) locusts are "screwed" by AAA tracking (the defending unit gets the +100% bonus).

I'd like to note that technically, native units have lifecycles and not morale. Their lifecycle is compared to a conventional units morale in a psi attack. At 'poly, I discovered while looking for bugs, that negative morale modifiers in SE does not affect lifecycle (unfortunately, SMAX designers didn't understand this SMAC distinction and brood pits "reverse" nonexistent negative morale modifiers!)

Your instincts to test are admirable. I found that several of my initial guesses were wrong.

 

[xchen08]

vyeh, thanks.

It occurs to me that doesn't this make psi the cheap man's blink? I've never bothered using the Psi-gun, but the ability to bypass terrain and defenses should mean that a psi-tank/rover with empath and soporific gas pods would make a cost effective and deadly unit on the attack coupled with Psi's inherent attack bonus, and all without being vulnerable to cheap empath troops like worms are.

Got to try this sometime as the Gaians and really crank up the planet rating.

 

[Pickly]

Psi combat units don't come until late in the game, though, and cannot use empath song or hypnotic trance.

(I did not think of the soporific gas pods, though. That might be a useful addition.)

 

[xchen08]

Psi combat units don't come until late in the game, though, and cannot use empath song or hypnotic trance.

(I did not think of the soporific gas pods, though. That might be a useful addition.)

Really? Why? Well, in any case, that then leaves a slot open for clean or Dwave, neither of which you can pack on a worm, and you still get the inherent psi attack bonus without suffering it in defense. And Centauri Psi isn't that late, and it grants both psi and Dwave. Certainly, it comes a lot earlier than blink, and psi-troops will never go obsolete.

 

[vyeh]

It occurs to me that doesn't this make psi the cheap man's blink? I've never bothered using the Psi-gun, but the ability to bypass terrain and defenses should mean that a psi-tank/rover with empath and soporific gas pods would make a cost effective and deadly unit on the attack coupled with Psi's inherent attack bonus, and all without being vulnerable to cheap empath troops like worms are.

Got to try this sometime as the Gaians and really crank up the planet rating.

psi fission (I believe reactor strength does not count in psi combat -- it doesn't when mindworms are involved) is 3 rows of minerals; blink string singularity is 8 rows

So it is cheap. However, empath applies to all psi combat. If you plan to put some armor on your psi fission, it will cost additional (psi singularity with stasis armor is 6 rows). But as long as you don't put psi armor on it, you don't have to worry about empath.

As you noted, the planet rating of the attacker does affect the odds.

string has weapon 30. If you are attacking stasis (armor 12), you get 30-12. Psi against stasis is 3-2. And because of the way combat is resolved, 2-1 is more than twice as good as 1-1 in terms of attrition.

So I think there may be situations where you would prefer blink string to psi attack from a cost analysis (but there are also situations where psi attack is better).

Psi combat units don't come until late in the game, though, and cannot use empath song or hypnotic trance.

(I did not think of the soporific gas pods, though. That might be a useful addition.)

I confirmed by using the unit design workshop that you can't use empath and hypnotic, but you can use soporific.

Really? Why? Well, in any case, that then leaves a slot open for clean or Dwave, neither of which you can pack on a worm, and you still get the inherent psi attack bonus without suffering it in defense. And Centauri Psi isn't that late, and it grants both psi and Dwave. Certainly, it comes a lot earlier than blink, and psi-troops will never go obsolete.

If you are not using psi on defense, you either have to stack it with a defensive unit or you have to put armor on it. If your planet rating is good, then psi is the way to go. If it isn't, then a conventional unit with blink may be better in terms of economics.

 

[xchen08]

If you are not using psi on defense, you either have to stack it with a defensive unit or you have to put armor on it. If your planet rating is good, then psi is the way to go. If it isn't, then a conventional unit with blink may be better in terms of economics.

Thanks for the testing. It seems the psi-gun is a lot stronger than I previously thought, and I wonder why I never used it back when I played rather religiously. The main thing as I see it is that blink comes with B13, while Psi comes at E8, and it eats up an ability slot that could instead go to Dwave to get around ECM/AAA or Soporific Gas Pods. For city attack, conventional units are still preferable in the very late game with String, or if you have a bad planet rating compared to your enemies, but for all other times, the psi-gun is really good for something that nobody ever uses.

 

[vyeh]

Mindworms cost 5 rows; so psi singularity with stasis armor at 6 rows is a good deal.

I think you are onto something about the psi-gun being a useful addition to your attack force.

However, note that a cheap hypnotic trance scout (especially with resonance armor) would be a good defense.