Public Polls

[ravensfire]

You missed my points, good try though.

A true voting bloc can only exist when the votes are public. It's quite simple, really. If a vote is private, the members of the "bloc" can say or promise anything, but the votes are secret, unverifiable, allowing the citizens to vote their personal beliefs, free from pressure. Should there not be enough votes in the direction the bloc wanted, it's impossible to determine who stood against the bloc.

Now, there are citizens that tend to vote in similar directions. I would wager, for example, that DZ and I generally vote alike, probably a few others too. Contrary to your conspiracy theory, we do so because we (hold on - this is a shock!) kinda think alike!

I know, I know - it's hard to believe that some people tend to play in a similar manner. Somehow though, it happened. Now, since you seem to know about these sinister blocs, who are they? I'd kinda like to know who I'm in lockset with - usually I'm the only one voting abstain!

Seriously - blocs, and the type of vote fraud you insinuate can happen only in public polls.

Now, the unregistered voter fraud can truly only happen in private polls. I agree with that statement. Has that been a problem - not sure, we haven't challenged a single poll to that extent, not even the term 1 elections. So, is the problem the supposed unregistered voter fraud, or the failure to enforce our own rules?

-- Ravensfire

 

[Black_Hole]

a big reason public polling is good, for elections
for example the majority of people feel that we should go to war with england, and if we have public polls everyone knows who voted against it, thus making people also know who they share their beliefs with, instead of "Darn that stupid person, who is it!!! Why isnt this stupid poll public?????"

 

[Rik Meleet]

Ravensfire;

I admire your dedication to accomplish something you believe in. I applaud you for that.

In your last post in this thread you've sure elaborated far, widely and deeply upon a theoretical situation, which have a chance of hapening of under 3% I personally think it is a debate in the margin; meaning a chat about insignificant details (perhaps the translated dutch phrase is lost in the translation).

I do not agree with your crusade against Public polls. But I'm willing to give your Point-of-view a chance.

Can you counter this ? If you can, please do.

* Public polls make it possible for citizens to change their votes as it is
shown what they've voted. 
* Public polls make it possible for anyone to spot illegally cast votes. 
* Public polls mimic Democracy better. All citizens are "congressmen /
 congresswomen" and in RL they vote publicly. 
* Public polls make it easier for non-native english speakers to choose the
correct option; if you know you agree with a certain citizen you can check 
(if you so not completely understand the phrasing of the question) what that
citizen voted on, allowing you to vote for what you want to vote for instead
of just guessing.
* Public votes allow to consider the options better. If you see a highly-skilled
player vote option A and a non-highly-skilled player to vote option B and you
were going to vote option B, you can rethink why option A might be the
better choice. 
* Public polls allow citizens to distinguish between active citizens and less
active citizens, which opens up the possibility to better choose active
deputies, discussion partners, nominations etc.

 

[ravensfire]

Rik,

1,2, and 4 are good, valid reasons for public polls. I do wonder though, has anyone ever vetted those voting in a poll to our citizen rolls.

3 is debatable. For voting on legislation, that's accurate. However, for many other votes (especially tax related), those, at a local/state level, are secret ballot.

5 is a poor reason, sorry. We should not be encouraging people to vote simply because a "more skilled player" voted as such. Voters should be persuaded through logic and reasoning, all of which is done through posts, not through votes. I suspect that 95% of those casting votes do not examine who's voted for what prior to voting, but after.

6 is an borderline - okay reason, but no more than that. Personally, I measure activity by participation in discussion, not in voting record. I don't examine voting records, I don't track them, not would I care if anyone did. An active citizen will post on discussions, will participate in the process before voting. A passive citizen will vote only.

Quite honestly, I didn't intend to be in this discussion. I was hoping to state my piece, again, and move on. I don't expect to change standard procedure nor anyone's mind. I expect to place a kernel of doubt into some people's minds about why this process might not be the best. I was, however, called out, and responded. Barring some strikingly new arguement from either side, I expect this to be my last post on the matter. Save, of course, for my usual protest votes.

-- Ravensfire

 

[Cyc]

OK, let me say this little bit then. I agree strongly with RM's #1 - #4. In #3, all of our votes should be public record. I can see why you don't put as much support behind #5 and #6, Ravensfire, but I like them as icing on the cake (the cake being 1-4).

BTW, RM, when you said above, "I personally think it is a debate in the margin; meaning a chat about insignificant details (perhaps the translated dutch phrase is lost in the translation).", I believe the phrase you want in American English is "Now we're talking degrees." (Degrees, as in the difference between your angle and mine.)

And one last thing. In Ravensfire's and Provolution's minor debate about block voting, I believe it's you, Ravensfire that is missing the point. Sorry. What provo is saying is that people can form a voting block outside of the polling arena (via chat, PM, email, whatever). Block voting can exist in Private polling just as easily as it can in Public Polling. That's not the point he's making. What he's talking about is the verification of names consistantly voting the same on a variety of issues. He's not head-hunting, but as part of his Demogame experience, he enjoys monitoring the flow of the game and discerning patterns that may escape other people. These "patterns" would only be detectable in Public Polling. Therefore Public Polling allows him another avenue to express his right of free speach. This creates yet another dimension for him to enjoy the game on. It's not a conspiracy theory as you say, it is a "deeper bench" with which to field his political ambitions. And after all, this is a political game.