PYL Bullpen

[schwartz]

Joao, Willem, Hannibal, Ragnar, Roosevelt (Industrious for GLH and Organized seem to have better synergy than the other Americans), HC might fit in there, financial and industrious both work well on watery maps..

 

[BalbanesBeoulve]

Not HC. The UU and the UB are both useless on an archipelago map.

 

[Bandobras Took]

Mehmed should be in there; he gets cheap Lighthouses and Cheap Harbors.

 

[Quotey]

Prefer INDs.

How about a game with underused leaders?

Underused: Mao, Stalin, Ghengis, Saladin, Sitting Bull, (Kublai? An Ottoman? Napoleon? Augustus? Pacal? Churchill?)

Superawesome unrestricted leaders?

Boudica/Rome (must you ask?), Pericles/Arabia (1/2 price, double culture libraries that allow 4 specs + philo? ), Churchill/Spain (Charismatic + Citadels (with Protective)), Julius/Holy Rome (or any org leader, really), Hammurabi/Zulu (fast courthouse, fast ikhanda) whatever other ones

 

[Bandobras Took]

Pericles of Arabia? Half-price double culture libraries that allow 4 specialists is super-strong?

 

[BalbanesBeoulve]

Hammurabi of Sumeria. Aggressive Vultures, ridiculously cheap and early courthouses. Or any organized leader of HRE.

Wang Kon or any other protective leader of Mali is really good. Protective skirmishers make awesome rush units.

 

[Bleys]

An idea came up in the PYL III thread that I feel deserves some discussion here. Here is a copy of the post, and my reply:

I like the idea of the PYL series but I think all the variables make it a bit random. Having lots of leaders to choose from and varying difficulty levels is fine and kind of the theme of the series but all starting at different locations?
Wouldn't it be more interesting if they all started in the same spot? I think that would highlight the different strategies that traits and uniques encourages given that other variables are held constant (the map).
I realize that it might be difficult to do, I basically know nothing about the WB.

Its not difficult at all to create a map, and have a number of leaders start in the same exact spot, with everything else being consistant (map, resources, AIs, etc). That would be a nice idea for a series, for sure, and be similar to this in that it would offer a variety of WB Saves to choose from.

Another good one may be to have a single leader showcased, but offer a variety of starting locations on the same map (maybe a simple swap round the circle with the AI he "displaces"), to see how different landscapes are approached with different strategies. Again, the WB Saves offer that flexibility as well, and the result would be similar, a ZIP with 6 or 7 "choices".

The point of this one is more a "fun" exercise to see how the same map gets played from different starting spots by different AIs, but all the AIs start in their own spot. If you look at some of the Backstabber reports, the maps are WILDLY different, and depending who you chose, watching the Human spread out and take over bit by bit was cool. I readily agree that the instructional educational value of this series is somewhat limited, but its a LOT of fun to watch the games unfold.

I will keep those others in mind though, they are good ideas for future editions of this series, sort of "Specials" we can mix in every now and then, maybe.

So that gives us 3 formats to choose from.

What we have now, 6-7 leaders, one map, each with his own unique starting spot on that map.

-or-

The same 6-7 leaders to choose from, but one common starting location on a common map with the same AIs

-or-

One showcased leader, again a common map, but different starting locations on that map, common AIs again.

We can mix and match this stuff as much as you folks want too, each of these formats is about the same amount of WB Save editing, and each would still come with a ZIP of the choices.

 

[Groogaroo]

I think the series is quite fun with the way the format is at the moment but theres no harm in mixing things up now and again.

The same 6-7 leaders to choose from, but one common starting location on a common map with the same AIs.

This idea is really good! The only problem I find with PYL at the moment is I can't really check what other players are doing in their games because were all playing from different locations. With the same start but having an option on leaders, will probably encourage more spoiler checking and generally be more fun!

One showcased leader, again a common map, but different starting locations on that map, common AIs again.

I'm not sure about this one PYL stands for 'pick your leader' but I guess it stand for 'pick your location' if you wanted it to.

Overall I feel, yeah, mix it up a bit. It can't hurt.

Oh yeah and By the way,

I love the idea posted about having a unrestricted leaders game. I never play unrestricted leaders, I feel it can be way too overpowered but if all the AI's had powerful combinations it could make for a great game.

 

[Bleys]

OK guys, ready set up another one of these. Well done on the Zealots game.

I would like to try a water-type map this time, and so far, we have the following leaders for it:

Jaoa
Willem
Hannibal
Ragnar
Washington (I would rather not stick any IND leader in this one, so no Roosevelt. Washington has awesome traits for a sprawled empire)
Isabella

Thats only 6, though, so do we want to add Mehmed, as was suggested? He does have good Spread Out Empire traits, even if not water-specific. Is there another strong choice for a 7th leader?

BTW, I will tell you up front I plan to do a Medium and Small, Snakey Continents, Islands mixed in, and pretty much re-generate maps until there re no more than 2 AIs on any given landmass, but almost all the islands are reachable by Galley.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Not HC. The UU and the UB are both useless on an archipelago map.

Exactly how is a culture granary not useful on a water map? It's useful on any map, it's a granary. Terrace = no monument needed...what's wrong with that picture on a water map? Nothing that I can imagine.

Financial is very strong on water, and industrious gives him a shot at colossus, GLH, etc.

The only non-synergy is the quecha. However, I'll point out that after going bronze working/sailing it's certainly very possible to quecha rush using galleys. The issue would be finding an AI that's close enough, but that DOES happen on archipelago. Very situational but its still a use. Not to mention, you can skip archery with inca and have absolutely zero fear of early barbs no matter what, which makes them decent in that regard too.

HC is kind of OP in general though. He's never bad. Ever.

 

[Bleys]

I left Roosevelt off because I feel he is overpowered on maps like this, and HC is similar.

However, if folks dont think Roosevelt is too strong, then I can include him and change the names of one American Empire. I think we want the full 7 for this one, so its either Roos, Mehmed or HC (who isnt nearly as powerful on maps like this).

 

[CivCorpse]

Then there is Ladies Night: Boudica/Hatty/Liz/Isabella/Cathy/Victoria. Of course you'll have 2 English AIs, and you also need someone to fill out the 7 slot which I nominate Sury as it's unclear to me whether he's even human!

Add Louis to the list. I am pretty sure he is wearing a lace teddy under his frilly clothes.

 

[CivCorpse]

OK guys, ready set up another one of these. Well done on the Zealots game.

I would like to try a water-type map this time, and so far, we have the following leaders for it:

Jaoa
Willem
Hannibal
Ragnar
Washington (I would rather not stick any IND leader in this one, so no Roosevelt. Washington has awesome traits for a sprawled empire)
Isabella

Thats only 6, though, so do we want to add Mehmed, as was suggested? He does have good Spread Out Empire traits, even if not water-specific. Is there another strong choice for a 7th leader?

BTW, I will tell you up front I plan to do a Medium and Small, Snakey Continents, Islands mixed in, and pretty much re-generate maps until there re no more than 2 AIs on any given landmass, but almost all the islands are reachable by Galley.

Darius. but he may be a little over powered.

 

[BalbanesBeoulve]

Any archipelago game needs an english civ, as they were a great naval power. I wouldn't mind having elizabeth again.

 

[Bleys]

The English angle makes sense, so thats who we go with, but not Liz. She is going to be appearing soon in the PHI leaders one. For this one, I think we go with Vicky.

I'll put it together this week, and get it up before the weekend.

 

[Bandobras Took]

He does have good Spread Out Empire traits, even if not water-specific.

Cheap Lighthouses and Harbors isn't water-specific??

 

[TheMeInTeam]

The English angle makes sense, so thats who we go with, but not Liz. She is going to be appearing soon in the PHI leaders one. For this one, I think we go with Vicky.

I'll put it together this week, and get it up before the weekend.

Vicky was a backstabber. What's wrong with Churchill? Planning to use him for protective PYL? If it's too hard to pick one I don't mind just using mehmed. I usually play the least popular leader in this series anyway (I've found in my games lately that traits barely matter compared to land/start position in many cases. The exception was Sal, who had both crappy land and isn't the best trait combo...though I love spiritual these days.)

 

[BalbanesBeoulve]

What about Pacal. Maya, Yucatan, Cancun, beaches, etc.

Or maybe Japan, since it is an archipelago nation.

 

[Bleys]

I think Mehmed is a good one. Each of his traits has a cheapened water-oriented building, even though he will be the only leader who doesnt start with Fishing.

 

[NintendoTogepi]

I think Mehmed is a good one. Each of his traits has a cheapened water-oriented building, even though he will be the only leader who doesnt start with Fishing.

Darius I might be good though, he has the best traits for Archipelago.