Qin Shi Huang, who are you?

[KelvinWong]

Emmm.... I learnt Chinese history in high school, but, of course, in Chinese, instead of English. I know the Posthumous Names of many Chinese empirors, in Chinese. And never heard those names in English. Also, I haven't read the civpedia in before I play the game. Therefore, I have no idea on who is Qin Shi Huang.

Well, in the diplomatic screen I saw Qin Shi Huang

, I guess he may be one of the empiror of Qing Dynasty (mid 17th - early 20th century). It is because the "crown" on his head is a typical Qing style (see also from wiki:

). For example, one of the famous empiror from Qing Dynasty is Qianlong.... Qing Dynasty, Qianlong and Qin Shi Huang starts with "Q"....

Later, I find I was wrong.... Qin Shi Huang should be the "First Empiror of Qin Dynasty"! Where Qin Dynasty was 221 - 206 BC! There are 2,000 years in between. And, as I read from many Chinese history textbook, the style of crown at that time was totally different:

.

May be it is just a game... We can't expect too much from it....
But... can the game be done better, at least, don't make such big mistake...

In Chinese, we have a proverb: "Mr. Cheung's hat is put on Mr. Li", i.e. to get people mixed up.
Now, we have "Mr. Aisin-Gioro's crown is put on Mr. Ying's head"!

(The family name of Qing empirors was Aisin-Gioro;
The family name of Qin empirors was Ying.)​

 

[salty]

Qin Shi Huang = 秦始皇 = (literally) Qin "First 始 Emperor 皇" aka 秦皇帝 = Qin Huang-di = Emperor 皇帝 Qin 秦 aka Emperor Chin 秦 (wade-giles or yale transliteration)

 

[jayron32]

Yes, and Catherine the Great wears a Napoleonic War officer's hat. Don't worry over the headgear of the characters. It adds flavor to the game, but don't let it ruin your enjoyment of it...

 

[nutnutwin]

the first monarch to claim himself the title of emporer...rather than "king" of Zhou Dynasty, which was over thrown during the warring-state period...

 

[KelvinWong]

Yes, and Catherine the Great wears a Napoleonic War officer's hat. Don't worry over the headgear of the characters. It adds flavor to the game, but don't let it ruin your enjoyment of it...

Yes, you're right. In fact, I haven't been affected by this "crown". I still enjoy the game.....

Here I just what to say even I am as a Chinese and learnt Chinese history in school.... I can't recognize Qin Shi Huang is "the First Empiror".....

I understand that among the eyes of Westerners, the Qing style clothes represents acient Chinese style clothes.... It is more easy for most people to recognize Qin Shi Huang is acient Chinese character.....

 

[SkippyT]

I am the emperor of united China. China gets it's name from me and I let my people build the Chinese wall. Therefor, I am industrious and finincial

My family is the Qin dynasty

 

[TrailblazingScot]

He is the A.I who gave me the biggest ever stomping.

 

[Eternalsteelfan]

The Great Wall in the background is a good context clue.

 

[gettingfat]

The hat or crown is only a trivial issue. In fact, I think what Friaxis messed up most is Qin's traits.

Qin should be organized/industrious, or organized/aggressive. In fact, he is probably the leader among all that most deserved the organized trait. His ruling is founded on the philosophy called "legalism", which means that the behaviours of individuals have to be "standardized" by explicit legal codes and bureacratic procedures for greater good. Books were burnt and scholars were executed because he believed people just need to follow the instructions from the selected bureacrats. Roads, writing, measuring systems, etc were standardized (which laid the foundation of a stable, unified China even after the fall of Qin dynasty). He is likely the biggest control freak in Chinese history, more so than Mao. If he is not "organized", I wonder who is.

Industrious is well justified because Qin is a true "wonder builder". Great Wall, the massive road system, canal system, etc, as well as his palace (which was so big when destroyed by burning later, the fire lasted longer than 3 months according to the official historical record) and his tomb (that contains the famous Terracotta Army, which I think should be a Great Wonder, probably "greater" than many wonders currently in the game). Qin's military workshops were also insanely advanced, which resemble the well managed assembly lines in modern time. So half-priced forges are certainly reasonable.

Aggressive is probably OK considering how powerful Qin's army was. Financial? There are many great financial leaders in Chinese history, but Qin is probably not one of them.

The Chinese leaders of modern days, starting from Deng Xiao Ping, likely match the industrious and financial combo more.

 

[naterator]

I let my people build the Chinese wall.

i think "worked half my people to death building chinese wall" is more like it. earned him a few thousand years of infamy in the land he united (for like 20 years, if i recall correctly). only since mao has his reputation really recovered.

 

[Eternalsteelfan]

Just in case anyone is still lost or wants a good link to more information

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huangdi

Note the "di" on the ending, different then the CIV spelling.

 

[salty]

The Great Wall in the background is a good context clue.

I don't think Qin Dynasty walls and any sections that may have been precursors of the "Great Wall" didn't have such elaborate crenalations or battlement(s).

So it looks like dress from the Qing, wall parts from Ming and leader supposedly Qin. Not a big deal, it's just a game, not a historically accurate simulation.

In other news, Bismark is standing in front of the Brandenburg Gate, supposedly commissioned by Fredrick.

 

[Veteranewbie]

The wearings of Chinese emperors in different dynasties
The Chinese name for the Emperor's dressing are called "Dragon Robe"

Han Dynasty

Tang Dynasty

Song Dynasty

Yuan Dynasty (Mongol) A Mongol noble clothings

Ming Dynasty

Qing Dynasty

 

[KelvinWong]

His ruling is founded on the philosophy called "legalism", which means that the behaviours of individuals have to be "standardized" by explicit legal codes and bureacratic procedures for greater good.....

Qin's military workshops were also insanely advanced, which resemble the well managed assembly lines in modern time.

Ya, I'm suprised by the well managed quality control system in the workshops among Qin kingdom, based on latest archaeological study.... In fact, Qin kingdom still used bronze weapon, but conquered iron weapon using kingdoms and unified China! With excellent QC system, Qin's bronze weapon is even stronger than those iron weapons....

The workshop management is "legalistic" and those craftmen used their life to gaurantee their products were excellent in quality....

Also, with this excellent QC system, the parts of their crossbow are interexchangable.... That mean, on the battlefield, if your crossbow is broken, you can randomly pick up another crossbow and put those part on yours. All parts were well fitted. ==> Qin already should had technology: "Replaceable Parts".

 

[zx1111]

I heared that the artwork of "Qin Shi Huang" is exchanged with Monglian "Genghis Khan". (or Kublai Khan, I cannot recall exactly).
Not by mistake but by Firaxis decision.
They thought that artwork originally drawn for "Qin Shi Huang" has more warlord-like look. So it was chosen as artwork of "Genghis Khan" and "Qin Shi Huang" got artwork originally drawn for "Genghis Khan"
The picture and hat of current Qin Shi Huang" are originally drawn for emperor of Monglian-China (Yuan dynasty) not ancient Qin Dynasty.
This will explain the oddity of artwork of "Qin Shi Huang".

 

[gettingfat]

Ya, I'm suprised by the well managed quality control system in the workshops among Qin kingdom, based on latest archaeological study.... In fact, Qin kingdom still used bronze weapon, but conquered iron weapon using kingdoms and unified China! With excellent QC system, Qin's bronze weapon is even stronger than those iron weapons....

The workshop management is "legalistic" and those craftmen used their life to gaurantee their products were excellent in quality....

Also, with this excellent QC system, the parts of their crossbow are interexchangable.... That mean, on the battlefield, if your crossbow is broken, you can randomly pick up another crossbow and put those part on yours. All parts were well fitted. ==> Qin already should had technology: "Replaceable Parts".

This level of quality control (and the commitment involved) is exactly what is missing in the industry of today's China (as well as Taiwan). Nowadays the label "made in China" almost automatically translates into cheap products with unpredictable quality. In a sense, Qin's approach resembles modern Japanese way - strong team work, paying attention to details, high efficiency. In Civ games all civs are always progressing. In reality some civs may actually be regressing at least in some aspects.

 

[Uiler]

This level of quality control (and the commitment involved) is exactly what is missing in the industry of today's China (as well as Taiwan). Nowadays the label "made in China" almost automatically translates into cheap products with unpredictable quality. In a sense, Qin's approach resembles modern Japanese way - strong team work, paying attention to details, high efficiency. In Civ games all civs are always progressing. In reality some civs may actually be regressing at least in some aspects.

Don't forgot the part about sentencing you to death (or to work on the Great Wall - same thing really) if you make any mistakes in production I'm sure that had a tremendous impact on quality as well

Japan used to make only cheap low-quality goods as well. However as Western nations put increasing trade barriers on Japanese goods to stop flooding them with cheap goods the Japanese started increasing their quality.

 

[gettingfat]

Don't forgot the part about sentencing you to death (or to work on the Great Wall - same thing really) if you make any mistakes in production I'm sure that had a tremendous impact on quality as well

Japan used to make only cheap low-quality goods as well. However as Western nations put increasing trade barriers on Japanese goods to stop flooding them with cheap goods the Japanese started increasing their quality.

It's more than that (fear of death). The attitude of Chinese has changed quite a bit in the past century (under the ruling of the great PRC government). A few years ago when I visited the Forbidden Palace, it is so easy to tell apart the parts of building that were recently repaired because they were so poorly done. I joked to my friend when I saw a stone lion looked like a dog after it's repaired.

In a recent interview, Yuen (the choreographer of several big action movies like Matrix, Hidden Dragon Crouching Tiger..) believed that there won't be another Jackie Chan or Jet Li because people are no longer as committed and serious, which I quite agree.

 

[Older than Dirt]

Yes, post-modern western civilization is most corrupting.

 

[onedreamer]

that is a typical mongolian headwear and that should have been Kublai (not Genghis) Khan. But for some odd reason they switched the two.