Quartermaster
- Thread starter Elear
- Start date
Please enlighten me, I almost never play games that go into Modern Ages that are based on heavy tech research.
You ICS corrupted region, irrigate/railroad evrything to max out food, wait for towns to grow/join workers, then sign scientists (each scientist gives you +3bpt; +1bpt from city center). One citizen working irrigated/rroaded grass can sustain 2 specialists (scientists in this case).
20-30 such towns could play significant role.
20-30 such towns could play significant role.
That is what I was thinking.
Currently, now with the culture issue solved, I have a projected 1600s for Diplomatic and likely later in the 1700s for Space.
Also, Ignas, you noted that Sid AIs can still research fairly well in Fascism. This is true, but I suppose that's only by one standard. Currently, I seem to be able to outresearch the AI, who is doing techs at around 15 turns (and continually gets distracted with silly things like Free Artistry and Ironclads) instead of 11 (my rate for Mass Production).
Part of the problem is that I'm really not, by most standards, a "large" civilization, so the techs aren't coming quickly. Now that I'm the tech leader, it's odd, because I have to do it myself. As you'll see in the writeup, I played most of the game from behind, using the AI to pretty much effectively "research" at 5-6 turns/tech.
Currently, now with the culture issue solved, I have a projected 1600s for Diplomatic and likely later in the 1700s for Space.
Also, Ignas, you noted that Sid AIs can still research fairly well in Fascism. This is true, but I suppose that's only by one standard. Currently, I seem to be able to outresearch the AI, who is doing techs at around 15 turns (and continually gets distracted with silly things like Free Artistry and Ironclads) instead of 11 (my rate for Mass Production).
Part of the problem is that I'm really not, by most standards, a "large" civilization, so the techs aren't coming quickly. Now that I'm the tech leader, it's odd, because I have to do it myself. As you'll see in the writeup, I played most of the game from behind, using the AI to pretty much effectively "research" at 5-6 turns/tech.
Something odd is now happening. Mapstat can't seem to decide how much the Aztecs are actually gaining. It was just saying nearly 800 CPT for the Aztecs, and this turn it says +81 CPT. 
(Based on my observations, the actual gain is at least several hundred CPT -- they went from 74k to 76k in about 5 turns)
What is going on?
EDIT: Next turn update. Aztecs +781 (perhaps Mapstat glitched and left out the 7 last turn?)
China also declared war on the Aztecs and mobilized, halfing their culture to a negligable +500/turn.
(Based on my observations, the actual gain is at least several hundred CPT -- they went from 74k to 76k in about 5 turns)
What is going on?
EDIT: Next turn update. Aztecs +781 (perhaps Mapstat glitched and left out the 7 last turn?)
China also declared war on the Aztecs and mobilized, halfing their culture to a negligable +500/turn.
MapStat is intentionally inexact - correct culture numbers would be spoiler information. I think the numbers it gives you are based on the number of pixels taken in the culture graph. You just have to watch it for a few turns and take an average - it'll be close.
Don't know, but remember MapStat doesn't provide exact culture and cpt, it provides approximatelly from culture graph in histograph screen.
Something forced AI to reduce science slider: maybe they are choking because of too many units, maybe paying too much for maintenance or too many gpt's to other civs.
Sometimes AI's reduce sci slider during war-time and "forget" to set it back to "normal" when in peace which results in slow research. It's hard to say.
Unit choking seems to be the primary problem -- ironically, China used to be one of the weakest civs in the game but became something because it never choked on its units -- partially helped by frequent wars with neighbor America. I consider the true key for China was the Great Lighthouse, however. This allowed it to do mass colonization: it has about 25 cities on its own island (pretty much steamrolled America out of its land) and then 25 cities on various islands.
Civs with even better starting positions became complete jokes because they had no contact with other AIs and choked.
The Aztecs, for example, were one such case, isolated on a large island in the middle of nowhere. They started out very strong and I feared their runaway with the game, yet they just choked as tech prices rose around the time of Education/Gunpowder, seemingly inexplicably.
Civs with even better starting positions became complete jokes because they had no contact with other AIs and choked.
The Aztecs, for example, were one such case, isolated on a large island in the middle of nowhere. They started out very strong and I feared their runaway with the game, yet they just choked as tech prices rose around the time of Education/Gunpowder, seemingly inexplicably.
China should be research powerhouse.
Check their income in diploscreen, then investigate a town to look how many % they devote to science. Then you could approximately calculate how many bpt's they are producing.
Maybe start a war vs Aztecs and ally China vs them so they burn some units and increase science slider again.
Check their income in diploscreen, then investigate a town to look how many % they devote to science. Then you could approximately calculate how many bpt's they are producing.
Maybe start a war vs Aztecs and ally China vs them so they burn some units and increase science slider again.
I'm not sure but China seems to have picked up the steam tremendously on research: it just completed Flight in 5 turns and I will only barely finish Mass Production in time to trade it for Flight.
The point isn't to get them researching fast anymore, though. As nice as #1 Spaceship would be, I'd rather have #2 Diplomatic (behind Sanabas 1400 AD game) because I think the time it would take to win by Spaceship is now long enough that I would rather take a crack in another game.
Either way, both fulfill Quartermaster requirements (Huge, Spaceship/Diplomatic).
The point isn't to get them researching fast anymore, though. As nice as #1 Spaceship would be, I'd rather have #2 Diplomatic (behind Sanabas 1400 AD game) because I think the time it would take to win by Spaceship is now long enough that I would rather take a crack in another game.
Either way, both fulfill Quartermaster requirements (Huge, Spaceship/Diplomatic).
A quick check of one of their cheap cities to investigate (Tatung 2 - 80 gold) demonstrates that their tech rate is 40 percent.
My reputation is indeed clean, though I sort of sense another tech steal coming up here to make it to the Modern Ages.
Two things are on my side: 25,000 gold in the treasury and a SGL waiting to build the UN.
My reputation is indeed clean, though I sort of sense another tech steal coming up here to make it to the Modern Ages.
Two things are on my side: 25,000 gold in the treasury and a SGL waiting to build the UN.
I beat China to Mass Production. 
It's a good thing I did, otherwise I would have been stealing Flight (I won't pay 24,000 gold for it).
Mass Production + Ironclads + 8,120 gold to China for Flight.
Motorized Transportation in 9 (reduced from 10 with scientist farms
)
It's a good thing I did, otherwise I would have been stealing Flight (I won't pay 24,000 gold for it).
Mass Production + Ironclads + 8,120 gold to China for Flight.
Motorized Transportation in 9 (reduced from 10 with scientist farms
)Yep!
In other news, China has had enough with me...declared war.
Lost some island settlements but I'll be alright.
War happiness woooooo!
Might as well use some of that gold to buy myself a defense, just in case of landings, as bad as the AI is at invading.
edit: Just realized China has Marines now, so defense is slightly harder as I must have several infantry on most of my coastal cities, just to be safe. At least Tanks are a few turns away. Bombers are also pesky and require an interception defense.
The complexities of modern warfare...just trying to wait it out, probably 10-12 turns of annoyance until then...
In other news, China has had enough with me...declared war.
Lost some island settlements but I'll be alright.
War happiness woooooo!
Might as well use some of that gold to buy myself a defense, just in case of landings, as bad as the AI is at invading.
edit: Just realized China has Marines now, so defense is slightly harder as I must have several infantry on most of my coastal cities, just to be safe. At least Tanks are a few turns away. Bombers are also pesky and require an interception defense.
The complexities of modern warfare...just trying to wait it out, probably 10-12 turns of annoyance until then...Update. China has pretty much captured my coal island (not that I really need it anymore)...except if they bomb my railroads, there won't really be a way to get those rebuilt. Still, I have drafted enough infantry up on the island that it is taking them turns to get through all of the defenses. My other island with oil+rubber+iron is well-protected, relatively, though closer to the Chinese mainland, so it's experiencing more bombing runs.
There's a little bit of war weariness now, but it's not bad.
I've elected to go minimum science on Fission to gain +1200 GPT. This helps me to both save gold for a tech steal (I think China will research Fission before I can) and to buy many infantry, fighters, and tanks to ensure China can't just walk onto my mainland without a heck of a fight.
It seems this game thinks of new challenges to throw at me to ensure that my victory won't be easy, just when I think I've put the game away. I think I can, I think I can.
edit: Signed America + Arabia + Zululand against China. I expect America to be wiped off the face of the planet but it's worth adding various distractions for China so they don't concentrate all their bombardment on my lands. My spy planted in China also tells me that China's force is mostly concentrated in their vast quantities of Cavalry, Infantry and Guerilla (1500 combined), neither of which can really do anything to me, at least on my main two islands. By the time they get Mech Infantry and Modern Armor, this game will be over. They don't have many transports and they aren't really building huge quantities of marines either, thus alleviating some of my concerns.
edit 2: note to self: game crashed @ 1710 AD and had to restart turn
note to others: do not fight superpowers on Sid level, intentionally or unintentionally
There's a little bit of war weariness now, but it's not bad.
I've elected to go minimum science on Fission to gain +1200 GPT. This helps me to both save gold for a tech steal (I think China will research Fission before I can) and to buy many infantry, fighters, and tanks to ensure China can't just walk onto my mainland without a heck of a fight.
It seems this game thinks of new challenges to throw at me to ensure that my victory won't be easy, just when I think I've put the game away. I think I can, I think I can.
edit: Signed America + Arabia + Zululand against China. I expect America to be wiped off the face of the planet but it's worth adding various distractions for China so they don't concentrate all their bombardment on my lands. My spy planted in China also tells me that China's force is mostly concentrated in their vast quantities of Cavalry, Infantry and Guerilla (1500 combined), neither of which can really do anything to me, at least on my main two islands. By the time they get Mech Infantry and Modern Armor, this game will be over. They don't have many transports and they aren't really building huge quantities of marines either, thus alleviating some of my concerns.
edit 2: note to self: game crashed @ 1710 AD and had to restart turn
note to others: do not fight superpowers on Sid level, intentionally or unintentionally
Triple post but I don't care much at 12:40 AM...
I managed to sign peace with China after 9 or 10 turns of war...war weariness was getting to be really bad despite my status as a total non-aggressor. I lost my coal island and all eight cities on it but only one tile was pillaged completely.
My main island and my rubber/oil/iron island are IN TACT with very few troop losses on each. I think if the war had gone on, tanks would have been increasingly key; infantry were no longer sufficient once China began landing tanks of their own. Without the factor of war weariness, I think I could have lasted almost indefinitely, since the landings were pathetically coordinated and timed. Even Modern Armor landings might have not hurt, since I could redline via artillery/bombers and then pick off stacks with my Tanks.
China is up Amp Warfare + Rocketry. I don't care about either.
Debating here with myself whether to crank up the research again as I turn down the lux slider, or whether to wait and steal Fission from China. I'm thinking I want to turn it up, since I have no guarantees in what order China will research anything, and my 15,000 gold is enough for several steal attempts, if necessary.
However I do it, I am going to win. I have to win, there is no other option. I've been through hell and back in this game and I'm not going to lose now. It is only a matter of time...
I managed to sign peace with China after 9 or 10 turns of war...war weariness was getting to be really bad despite my status as a total non-aggressor. I lost my coal island and all eight cities on it but only one tile was pillaged completely.
My main island and my rubber/oil/iron island are IN TACT with very few troop losses on each.
I think if the war had gone on, tanks would have been increasingly key; infantry were no longer sufficient once China began landing tanks of their own. Without the factor of war weariness, I think I could have lasted almost indefinitely, since the landings were pathetically coordinated and timed. Even Modern Armor landings might have not hurt, since I could redline via artillery/bombers and then pick off stacks with my Tanks.China is up Amp Warfare + Rocketry. I don't care about either.
Debating here with myself whether to crank up the research again as I turn down the lux slider, or whether to wait and steal Fission from China. I'm thinking I want to turn it up, since I have no guarantees in what order China will research anything, and my 15,000 gold is enough for several steal attempts, if necessary.
However I do it, I am going to win. I have to win, there is no other option. I've been through hell and back in this game and I'm not going to lose now. It is only a matter of time...
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