Question about civilizations Characteristics.
- Thread starter Deep_Blue
- Start date
Nate1976
Just Plain Wierd
replaced by leader traits. But they are still in it.
Nate1976
Just Plain Wierd
they're not like that. It's like...here's the list:
Philosophical: 100% of the Civilization's birthrate and half cost of Libraries and Universities. (almost scientific)
Spiritual: No anarchy when changing to a different government, and cheaper temples and monasteries. (clearly relious)
Creative: Gain a bonus to Civilizations' culture and half-priced theaters and broadcast towers. (almost like comercial)
Organized: Civic Upkeep costs half the original cost and Labs and Courthouses are cheaper. (in a way, sceintific, in a way, industiral
Expansive: Healing units inside cities is much faster and Granaries and Grocers are cheaper. (agricultural)
Aggressive: New units get the Combat I bonus for free. Barracks and Jail prices are cut by half as well (militaristic)
They haven't anounced all of them, yet...
Philosophical: 100% of the Civilization's birthrate and half cost of Libraries and Universities. (almost scientific)
Spiritual: No anarchy when changing to a different government, and cheaper temples and monasteries. (clearly relious)
Creative: Gain a bonus to Civilizations' culture and half-priced theaters and broadcast towers. (almost like comercial)
Organized: Civic Upkeep costs half the original cost and Labs and Courthouses are cheaper. (in a way, sceintific, in a way, industiral
Expansive: Healing units inside cities is much faster and Granaries and Grocers are cheaper. (agricultural)
Aggressive: New units get the Combat I bonus for free. Barracks and Jail prices are cut by half as well (militaristic)
They haven't anounced all of them, yet...
Aussie_Lurker
Deity
Deep_Blue. You have to remember that these Leader Traits represent-to some degree-the historical priorities of those particular leaders. Therefore, it may in fact be possible for a leader to have an Agrarian or Nautical/Naval trait-to reflect their priority for those areas. In fact, I wouldn't be suprised if Agrarian, Nautical, Industrious and Mercantile are traits which have yet to be revealed.
Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.
Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.
I_pity_the_fool
Warlord
I wouldn't have thought so. The game designers probably arranged it so that each combination of traits would have a leader to go along with it. In Civ3, there were 6 traits and 16 civs (Militaristic and Religious had two - Japan and the Aztecs). They'll probably be a couple more doubles this time around, but I doubt they'll have space for extra leaders - at least until the expansions come out.
(8) traits * (7) 2nd traits / (2) possible ways to have identical combinations = (28) possible leader types.
(28) possible leader types - (18) civilizations = (10) civilizations with two leaders.
Check the math.
This means there are 28 civilizations in the game, (10 * 2 = 20) of them have a twin.
(28) possible leader types - (18) civilizations = (10) civilizations with two leaders.
Check the math.
This means there are 28 civilizations in the game, (10 * 2 = 20) of them have a twin.
mastertyguy
I'm tired!
It would be better, IMHO, to have 28 civ with two leaders and 56 leaders...
Aussie_Lurker
Deity
Which will probably quickly become the case-via both the efforts of modders and future expansions. In fact, between the two, I reckon we will be 'spoiled for choice' in regards to both civs and leaders by around mid-2006 
. In which case, we will need those extra traits I mentioned to keep things from getting too repetitive!
Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.
. In which case, we will need those extra traits I mentioned to keep things from getting too repetitive!Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.
Aussie_Lurker
Deity
@Deep_Blue. I believe that Crayton is speculating that there could be two more traits, without a need for any real duplicate combinations, in Vanilla Civ4. At least, thats how I read it.
Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.
Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.
HourlyDaily
Man-o-Mercy
And I can't see why we can't have new traits if they are balanced and make sense for that leader.
There doesn't seem much point in multiple leaders if some of them are going to share traits. Sure, it gives you two ways to play some Civs, but whats the point wen one of those ways is the same as Mali
Two leaders won't have identical traits, if there are 8 possible traits. Go to Post #7.
If they stick with only 6 traits (which would be bad) there will only be 15 unique combinations.
Unless...
(6) 1st traits * (5) 2nd traits * (4) 3rd traits / (2 * 3 = 6) orders of identical combinations = (20) possible combinations.
Maybe they are lying about there only being (18) civilizations and there are actually (20)!!
Of course this would bounce back to the point that Truronian made about 2nd leaders of a civilization sharing characteristics with a leader of another civilization.
If they stick with only 6 traits (which would be bad) there will only be 15 unique combinations.
Unless...
(6) 1st traits * (5) 2nd traits * (4) 3rd traits / (2 * 3 = 6) orders of identical combinations = (20) possible combinations.
Maybe they are lying about there only being (18) civilizations and there are actually (20)!!
Of course this would bounce back to the point that Truronian made about 2nd leaders of a civilization sharing characteristics with a leader of another civilization.
I_pity_the_fool
Warlord
I think this is what we've got to go on so far - six traits, so 15 combinations. Civ4 Info Page. (which I'm sure you've read already...). Together with 18 rulers thats 3 doubles. Given the aggression of most of human civilization's historic rulers, I think the aggressive and expansive traits will be quite heavily used. Remember how in Play the World we had a surfeit of expansionist civs? It'll be a bit like that, I imagine...
The link provides information that states there will be 'about 26 leaders'.
This means there will be eleven (11) duplicates (again, assuming maximum 6 traits).
There must be more to it, maybe not more characteristics, but something else that will define the leaders.
Unique Units work, but only a small amount.
Of course, we can all dream that the information provided is incomplete.
This means there will be eleven (11) duplicates (again, assuming maximum 6 traits).
There must be more to it, maybe not more characteristics, but something else that will define the leaders.
Unique Units work, but only a small amount.
Of course, we can all dream that the information provided is incomplete.
Aussie_Lurker
Deity
Actually, Vietcong, I think you will find that the other thing which differentiates the various leaders are personalities. This will take the form of basic behaviour and preferred civics choices. The example the designers point to is the fact that Ghandi will tend to help weaker nations, and won't wage war without good reason-stuff like that. This means that it is possible to have leaders who have duplicate traits, but who still are very different from one another-which is why it is best not to think in Civ3 terms on this matter.
What we also need to remember is that the majority of the traits we know about are only because we have heard about them in relation to specific leaders-such as the Aggressive trait of Napolean. I think that, as we hear about more leaders, we will also learn about traits beyond the ones we have already heard about.
Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.
What we also need to remember is that the majority of the traits we know about are only because we have heard about them in relation to specific leaders-such as the Aggressive trait of Napolean. I think that, as we hear about more leaders, we will also learn about traits beyond the ones we have already heard about.
Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.
Brain
Lost in thought
Yeah, but these things matter only for the AI. A human playing as Ghandi has no such constraints.Aussie_Lurker said:
I think this is the key point. It would be foolish to decieve ourselves by thinking that we already have a complete picture. There may be things we haven't even thought about.Aussie_Lurker said:
