Question about whipping overflow

[Seallv]

I am wondering why sometimes i am getting bigger and sometimes smaller overflow. Those are hammers, basically the most important resource in the game (i know that many will say food, but food only helps getting the hammers and commerce).

I have noticed that when i whip a tank i get very big overflow(together with multipliers from factories and stuff i usually get tanks in 1-2 turns nearly every turn), on a cavalry too, little less, on a swordman or a early age building however, i never get more then 30ish overflow.

I know that 1 population is supposed to whip into 30 hammers and if i understand correctly, if i get more hammers on the overflow then the cost of the what im whipping, then i get gold. Warrior is 15 hammers, if i get overflow of 25, i will get 15 hammers and 10 gold.

Take a look at the screenshots. I dont understand.

I can get 12 hammers from 1pop-whip buddhist monastery, invested 26/60, 4hammers/turn in the city (3*150% for buddhism and forge). That seems by my understanding should be 0 overflow, since i have 26/60 already, 4 will be produced this turn and 30 is for each population.

I can get 57 hammers from 2pop-whip university, invested 114/200, 32hammers/turn in the city (16*200% for the buddhism, forge, bureacracy). So i was thinking something like this:
200-114=86; 86-32=54; 60(2pop*30)-54(needed amount)=6overflow. But im getting 57.

I can get 50 hammers and 5 gold for the 1pop-whip stable, invested 40/60, 42hammers this turn ((11each turn+17 overflow)*50% for forge and buddhism). This one i am clueless to even begin to undertand, i wish every time i whip for one pop i would get such a huge overflow.​

P.S. I am trying to add pictures with url, so its easier to see screenshots, but program didnt let me post it. I am trying to contact administrators, maybe i will add them later. For now they are as attachments.

 

[lymond]

OP's images in spoiler below. (Seally, it really helps folks if you post the images instead of folks having to download files. You can create links from your upload files and turn them into images in the post - preferably in spoilers to help with page loading. I usually use a 3rd party image hosting site myself)

edit: did not see your last sentence yet..ha

Spoiler :

 

[lymond]

(i know that many will say food, but food only helps getting the hammers and commerce)..

It's food that is giving you those overflow hammers. Growth equals hammers and whipping is the most powerful mechanic in the game.

 

[lymond]

I'm not great at math especially when you add in hammer multipliers to the equation but I think you are slightly off track a bit, but close. You have to take into the account the hammer modifiers affect on the whip itself. For one, it is the reason you are 1 popping a 26/60 monastery as opposed to 2 popping, as you would without a forge and OR. And then factor in the cities base hammers (after the whip) as well. What the button shows you is not always totally accurate once you actually remove citizens, as it may change your base hammers.

Try applying the modifiers to the whip hammers then add to the current production of said item + estimated base hammers that turn and then subtract the item cost. I think you will find the numbers closer to what the button is displaying.

Does Maastricht have chop hammers?

I came up with about 15H OF on the monastery, but there may be another factor I'm not considering like OF caps - not sure if that would apply here - or the button tooltip just lying. Again, as I said you may often find your actual OF to be different one way or another that the tooltip info on the next turn, but it should be in the ballpark.

 

[Fippy]

Hiya, i don't have much time (morning hours)..but for modifiers like forge, OR etc. the game rounds down.
Whipping a galleon (80 ) for 2 pop should be possible at 5 invested (60+15) if there's a forge, but it's not yet.
I think the 30 for each pop divided by 4 (25%) not resulting in an even number cause that problem.
If the game gives only 7 for a forge, we can explain the galleon example where we arrive at 74/80 instead of 75.

 

[civac]

This is a bug. The game does correctly give you 75 hammer for a 2pop whip with forge but it will incorrectly predict this in advance and thus not allow you to whip at 5/80. If you whip at 6/80 the galleon will end up at 81/80 as it should. This happens for even whips at 25% (75%, 125%, ...) modifiers and odd whips at 50% (150%, 250%) modifiers. For instance, you can't 1pop whip an IMP settler at 55/100.

@Seallv Whips get the normal production modifiers from forges, bureaucracy or OR. You can also only whip if the whip alone will finish the item.

Your overflow values still do not add up though.They are too high. In the first example: You get 45 hammers from the whip (forge, OR) with 26 hammers invested and 4 production this comes to 75 = 26 + 4 + 30*1.5. So for the 60 hammer monastery you get 10 overflow: 10 = (75 - 60)/1.5

 

[ZPV]

Just to walk you through it, it's 30 hammers + multipliers, per population whipped. These are added immediately. Then at the end of the turn you get the current production.
Excess overflow past the overflow cap (which is equal to the larger of: raw production in the city and the cost of the current build) is converted to gold at the end of the turn. (BUFFY only IIRC).

In terms of "overflow hammers" - the game takes the overflow, and divides it by your current production multiplier.
However, for illustrative purposes, the tooltip for the "hurry" button multiplies the base overflow by your base production modifier (i.e. it counts Forge and Bureaucracy but not Organised Religion or resources etc).

I can get 12 hammers from 1pop-whip buddhist monastery, invested 26/60, 4hammers/turn in the city (3*150% for buddhism and forge). That seems by my understanding should be 0 overflow, since i have 26/60 already, 4 will be produced this turn and 30 is for each population.

You whip one pop for 30*1.5 = 45
This takes the build to 71/60.
At the end of turn, you get 4 more to go to 75.
The build completes and you have 15 modified overflow
This converts to 10 base .

However the tooltip shows 10*1.25 = 12 (rounded down)

I can get 57 hammers from 2pop-whip university, invested 114/200, 32hammers/turn in the city (16*200% for the buddhism, forge, bureacracy). So i was thinking something like this:
200-114=86; 86-32=54; 60(2pop*30)-54(needed amount)=6overflow. But im getting 57.

You whip 2 pop for 60*2.0 = 120
This takes the build to 234/200
At the end of turn, you get 32 more to go to 266 (assuming you didn't whip away any production tiles/engineers etc)
The build completes and you have 66 modified overflow
This converts to 33 base .

However the tooltip shows 33*1.75 = 57 (rounded down)

I can get 50 hammers and 5 gold for the 1pop-whip stable, invested 40/60, 42hammers this turn ((11each turn+17 overflow)*50% for forge and buddhism). This one i am clueless to even begin to undertand, i wish every time i whip for one pop i would get such a huge overflow.

You whip 1 pop for 30*1.5 = 45
This takes the build to 85/60
At the end of turn, you get 42 more to go to 127
The build completes and you have 67 modified overflow .
However, this is over the cap (60 ), so overflow is reduced to 60 with excess converted to gold.
This converts to 40 base

However the tooltip shows 40*1.25 = 50

The reason this city gets so much overflow is really - it's just got a lot of production. You were finishing the building anyway and added 45 more hammers to the pot.

 

[Seallv]

Thanks so much guys! ZVP i understand the most clearly. First 2 examples are explained very well. I think the big problem was that i thought that multipliers are added next turn when i have actual overflow in my next building queue items bar. So if i get 40 overflow i would get +50% and get 60, but youre saying that im getting the overflow multipliers at the point of whipping, that explains a lot. It chances the population cost and base hammer cap thing and more. However in answer to:

You whip 1 pop for 30*1.5 = 45
This takes the build to 85/60
At the end of turn, you get 42 more to go to 127
The build completes and you have 67 modified overflow .
However, this is over the cap (60 ), so overflow is reduced to 60 with excess converted to gold.
This converts to 40 base

However the tooltip shows 40*1.25 = 50

The reason this city gets so much overflow is really - it's just got a lot of production. You were finishing the building anyway and added 45 more hammers to the pot.

My city doesnt have 42 hammers every turn, just this turn. I think it was from chopping or previous overflow. You can count the hammers in the picture (thanks lymond for making those pictures easier to look at), the city only has 11 base hammers, some from tiles and 4 from temple and monastery. Is it possible that i dont actually get 50 and its a bug in BUG mod?

 

[Seallv]

I wonder about those pictures too, i sent question to moderators on friday, about why my pictures from imgur.com arent being posted here, but i havent gotten any response.

 

[lymond]

I wonder about those pictures too, i sent question to moderators on friday, about why my pictures from imgur.com arent being posted here, but i havent gotten any response.

Use the text in the BBcode field and just paste it right into the post. You don't need to use any buttons or tags.

What method did you use to communicate? I've not seen it myself.

 

[Seallv]

I am wondering why sometimes i am getting bigger and sometimes smaller overflow. Those are hammers, basically the most important resource in the game (i know that many will say food, but food only helps getting the hammers and commerce).

I have noticed that when i whip a tank i get very big overflow(together with multipliers from factories and stuff i usually get tanks in 1-2 turns nearly every turn), on a cavalry too, little less, on a swordman or a early age building however, i never get more then 30ish overflow.

I know that 1 population is supposed to whip into 30 hammers and if i understand correctly, if i get more hammers on the overflow then the cost of the what im whipping, then i get gold. Warrior is 15 hammers, if i get overflow of 25, i will get 15 hammers and 10 gold.

Take a look at the screenshots. I dont understand.

I can get 12 hammers from 1pop-whip buddhist monastery, invested 26/60, 4hammers/turn in the city (3*150% for buddhism and forge). That seems by my understanding should be 0 overflow, since i have 26/60 already, 4 will be produced this turn and 30 is for each population.



I can get 57 hammers from 2pop-whip university, invested 114/200, 32hammers/turn in the city (16*200% for the buddhism, forge, bureacracy). So i was thinking something like this:
200-114=86; 86-32=54; 60(2pop*30)-54(needed amount)=6overflow. But im getting 57.



I can get 50 hammers and 5 gold for the 1pop-whip stable, invested 40/60, 42hammers this turn ((11each turn+17 overflow)*50% for forge and buddhism). This one i am clueless to even begin to undertand, i wish every time i whip for one pop i would get such a huge overflow.



O now it worked, i was trying to use:
IMG]https://i.imgur.com/RgGoJQj.png[/IMG

with extra "[]" at the start and end

error message that i got was that im trying to spam or using inappropriate symbols or somethig like that.

Also im not getting emails for new messages in the thread. Thats why it took me 3 days to reply, i guess
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