Question for Germans: How do you view Adolf Hitler?

[kt_atis]

Actually this is a question for just anybody really but I would really like to hear from Germans as well. I just want to know how different culture and people view history. Well first off Hitler was a bad person but at the same time he could be looked at as a talented guy. He loved to paint, he wrote a book that sold millions being the best seller only next to the Bible. He was against communism but the only thing that made him bad was his hatred towards Jews. And after watching a documentary about the unpublished squeal to Mein Kampf (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zweites_Buch) it stated that Hitler never intended to conquer the world and destroy everything.

Hitler stated that his number one goal was to expand the land of Germany so the farmers could have more land. So his plan was to have the British and Italy team up with Germany and take out Russia the communist. He said Britain would keep her colonies, Italy can have the Mediterranean and Germany would have eastern Europe and Russia.

The only reasons he wanted this land was so that German farmers could expand and grow their crops. He believed his duty was to help save the Aryan race. So from what you heard now and have heard before what is your perspective of Hitler? I am just curious about these kinds of things. Hitler was a bad man indeed but when I watched the documentary on the History channel they seemed to show a lighter side of Hitler. So without further adieu what is your view of Hitler?

 

[Tanktunker]

Saying Hitler was a bad man is like saying that Civ4 is slightly addictive.
Seriously though, that's a huge understatement, he's directly responsible for the massacre of 6 million Jews, and countless other minorities, that doesn't make him "bad", that makes him one of the 4 horsemen or something.

 

[MangleMeElmo]

He also became sexually aroused at the sound of his own voice. Anyone who experiences that should not be the leader of.....anything.

 

[BuFu]

sure. he wasnt a bad person. i mean, if not considering him trying to erase as much of the jewish people as possible, not to mention all the non-jewish people murdered in german camps, he did no wrong to the world, right? cause conquering russian lands so his precious little civ workers could build their farms and cottages on them is the absolute good, isnt it? all the russians driven out of their lands are just dust and wind. slavic people are not really human, arent they? therefore poland doesnt deserve independence, am i wrong?
for sure, the "aryan race" would have faced inevitable extinction if they stayed at germany and tried to solve their inner problems peacefully.

 

[MangleMeElmo]

sure. he wasnt a bad person. i mean, if not considering him trying to erase as much of the jewish people as possible, not to mention all the non-jewish people murdered in german camps, he did no wrong to the world, right? cause conquering russian lands so his precious little civ workers could build their farms and cottages on them is the absolute good, isnt it? all the russians driven out of their lands are just dust and wind. slavic people are not really human, arent they? therefore poland doesnt deserve independence, am i wrong?
for sure, the "aryan race" would have faced inevitable extinction if they stayed at germany and tried to solve their inner problems peacefully.

Are you trying to start a flame war?

 

[Falk]

Heh, you could even say that Hitler's hatred for the Jews wasnt something special - it was quite normal at his time, especially among Catholics. So Hitler was just the average guy?

I dont think so. He was an unscrupulous Megalomaniac, an opportunist Machtmensch (="power hungry guy" or sth. like that) and a mass murderer.
What most people dont know, he even stated that he was a faithful Catholic - so do these "good intentions" justify his deeds? Certainly not.
And Hitler's plans were based on racism. It wasnt so much about conquering new lands for some poor German farmers, but about killing "inferior races" like the Slavs.
So the whole "Lebensraum"-idea is just utter nonsense. Hitler was a fascist and a racist.

Thus he doesnt belong in the game. The same is true for Stalin of course, and probably also for Mao.

 

[BuFu]

Are you trying to start a flame war?

im trying to open kt's eyes.

 

[Pannonius]

Actually this is a question for just anybody really but I would really like to hear from Germans as well. I just want to know how different culture and people view history. Well first off Hitler was a bad person but at the same time he could be looked at as a talented guy. He loved to paint, he wrote a book that sold millions being the best seller only next to the Bible. He was against communism but the only thing that made him bad was his hatred towards Jews. And after watching a documentary about the unpublished squeal to Mein Kampf (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zweites_Buch) it stated that Hitler never intended to conquer the world and destroy everything.

Hitler stated that his number one goal was to expand the land of Germany so the farmers could have more land. So his plan was to have the British and Italy team up with Germany and take out Russia the communist. He said Britain would keep her colonies, Italy can have the Mediterranean and Germany would have eastern Europe and Russia.

The only reasons he wanted this land was so that German farmers could expand and grow their crops. He believed his duty was to help save the Aryan race. So from what you heard now and have heard before what is your perspective of Hitler? I am just curious about these kinds of things. Hitler was a bad man indeed but when I watched the documentary on the History channel they seemed to show a lighter side of Hitler. So without further adieu what is your view of Hitler?

So there's nothing wrong about destroying slavonic race so that the poor German farmers can take their land??? Man, uncle Adolf would be proud!

 

[tokyosexwhale]

What a stupid question.

 

[yena]

He was against communism but the only thing that made him bad was his hatred towards Jews.

Starting a dictatorship, outlawing political opposition, and putting many of their leaders and vocal followers in concentration camps doesn't count, I guess? How about non-voluntary euthanasia, or the prosecution of homosexuals and gypsies. Jews were not the only ones to be killed, you know.

This is just for starters. How about reading and thinking first before writing about things you obviously know nothing about.

 

[Saim]

Don't forget Slavs. Though... Stalin probably killed more Slavs :justkidding:

 

[AThousandYoung]

I know a guy from the formerly Communist side of Berlin. He's 20 or so now. He hates Hitler and neo Nazis with a passion. He says he beats them up when he finds them.

 

[rabidveggie]

Hitler was elected by the German people by something like 51%. So Germans out there who blame the entire Holocaust on Hitler are also responsible. The SS which ran the camps were also German and the people who squealed on their Jewish neighbors, destroyed Jewish shops, and ignored the frequent falling ashes coming from the camps are just as bad as Hitler in my opinion. Was Hitler pure evil? No man can be pure evil and he was a man, an evil psychopath, but still a man. Is it still possible to justify his actions on the international stage? No it certainly is not. He forcibly took numerous countries, not just Russia and pretty much went out to pick a fight with Britain when he attacked Poland. He also exterminated millions of Russians simply for being, what he thought, an inferior race.

 

[Tanktunker]

Hitler was elected by the German people by something like 51%. So Germans out there who blame the entire Holocaust on Hitler are also responsible. The SS which ran the camps were also German and the people who squealed on their Jewish neighbors, destroyed Jewish shops, and ignored the frequent falling ashes coming from the camps are just as bad as Hitler in my opinion. Was Hitler pure evil? No man can be pure evil and he was a man, an evil psychopath, but still a man. Is it still possible to justify his actions on the international stage? No it certainly is not. He forcibly took numerous countries, not just Russia and pretty much went out to pick a fight with Britain when he attacked Poland. He also exterminated millions of Russians simply for being, what he thought, an inferior race.

I could point out the flaws of your post one by one, but there's really no need, since every single statement made in that post is wrong.
There is nothing correct or true about what you just said, nothing at all.

 

[PimpyMicPimp]

Well, I don't think anyoen will argue with me if I say he had a massive impact on the world.

Really, I'm for more leaders generally. Good, bad, insignificant, trait combos can be repeated, even, I just want more leaders (especially modern ones) and more civs!

 

[BuFu]

I could point out the flaws of your post one by one, but there's really no need, since every single statement made in that post is wrong.
There is nothing correct or true about what you just said, nothing at all.

saying someone is wrong, without pointing out what is wrong, is like saying - i have no idea what im talking about, but i just wanna say something.

 

[Tanktunker]

saying someone is wrong, without pointing out what is wrong, is like saying - i have no idea what im talking about, but i just wanna say something.

Fine, here I go.

Hitler was elected by the German people by something like 51%. So Germans out there who blame the entire Holocaust on Hitler are also responsible. The SS which ran the camps were also German and the people who squealed on their Jewish neighbors, destroyed Jewish shops, and ignored the frequent falling ashes coming from the camps are just as bad as Hitler in my opinion. Was Hitler pure evil? No man can be pure evil and he was a man, an evil psychopath, but still a man. Is it still possible to justify his actions on the international stage? No it certainly is not. He forcibly took numerous countries, not just Russia and pretty much went out to pick a fight with Britain when he attacked Poland. He also exterminated millions of Russians simply for being, what he thought, an inferior race.

The NSDAP won 44% of the vote the year they rose to power, not through democratic proceedings, either, but from domestic terrorism

Any Germans that could vote in 1933, would be around 95 years old or above, so no, the Germans that blame Hitler are mostly dead, you can't blame their children, they did nothing wrong.

The German people that squealed on their neighbors, that destroyed Jewish shops and that ignored the signs of Death Camps (Which weren't in Germany, only in Poland, so very little Germans that weren't members of the party were actually aware of this happening) were facing death or forced labor if they acted differently, so I'm afraid you can't blame them for acting out of constant irrational fear of almost certain death.

Hitler was evil, I'm not going to argue with you about the philosophical intricacies of purity or evil, but the man was certainly motivated by all the wrong things.

Yes, it is possible to justify his actions on an international scale, but the justifications are weak, and in the end nobody can say that the world wouldn't have been better off without Hitler.

Hitler never forcibly took Russia, he never got far enough to be able to claim that he conquered Russia, but rather his army got stuck in a long stalemate with the red army, until they ran out of munitions and supplies and eventually were forced to surrender and retreat.

Hitler wasn't out to pick a fight with Britain when he conquered Poland, he was out to conquer Poland when he conquered Poland, rather England was the fight picker, not that they didn't pick a just fight, but in a way "Britain started it".

Hitler never exterminated Slavs, even though they were an inferior race, according to Hitler's race theory, Slavs were meant to serve the Aryan race, while the Jews were the ones that had to be destroyed.

 

[BuFu]

Fine, here I go.


The NSDAP won 44% of the vote the year they rose to power, not through democratic proceedings, either, but from domestic terrorism

Any Germans that could vote in 1933, would be around 95 years old or above, so no, the Germans that blame Hitler are mostly dead, you can't blame their children, they did nothing wrong.

The German people that squealed on their neighbors, that destroyed Jewish shops and that ignored the signs of Death Camps (Which weren't in Germany, only in Poland, so very little Germans that weren't members of the party were actually aware of this happening) were facing death or forced labor if they acted differently, so I'm afraid you can't blame them for acting out of constant irrational fear of almost certain death.

Hitler was evil, I'm not going to argue with you about the philosophical intricacies of purity or evil, but the man was certainly motivated by all the wrong things.

Yes, it is possible to justify his actions on an international scale, but the justifications are weak, and in the end nobody can say that the world wouldn't have been better off without Hitler.

Hitler never forcibly took Russia, he never got far enough to be able to claim that he conquered Russia, but rather his army got stuck in a long stalemate with the red army, until they ran out of munitions and supplies and eventually were forced to surrender and retreat.

Hitler wasn't out to pick a fight with Britain when he conquered Poland, he was out to conquer Poland when he conquered Poland, rather England was the fight picker, not that they didn't pick a just fight, but in a way "Britain started it".

Hitler never exterminated Slavs, even though they were an inferior race, according to Hitler's race theory, Slavs were meant to serve the Aryan race, while the Jews were the ones that had to be destroyed.

so you say that:
1) it is okay to invade russia, as long as you get stuck at some point not very far into the country.
2) it is okay to attack poland, as long as you dont really start a war with britain afterwards. (btw, there is no way germany wasnt aware of the pact between poland, britain and france, but lets ignore it in this case).
3) it is okay to treat slavic peoples like . .. .. .. ., literally turning them into your slaves, as long as you are treating them better then you treat the jews (btw, as soon as the invasion to poland was completed, german military forces started hunting down polish leaders, politicians, artists and such, sending them to concentration camps, where they eventually found their death, in order to destroy the polish culture. moreover, around 1.5 million polish civilians were sent to germany by force, to serve the germans there, and eventually disappeared).

is this what you are trying to say?

 

[Tanktunker]

so you say that:
1) it is okay to invade russia, as long as you get stuck at some point not very far into the country.
2) it is okay to attack poland, as long as you dont really start a war with britain afterwards. (btw, there is no way germany wasnt aware of the pact between poland, britain and france, but lets ignore it in this case).
3) it is okay to treat slavic peoples like . .. .. .. ., literally turning them into your slaves, as long as you are treating them better then you treat the jews (btw, as soon as the invasion to poland was completed, german military forces started hunting down polish leaders, politicians, artists and such, sending them to concentration camps, where they eventually found their death, in order to destroy the polish culture).

is this what you are trying to say?

I never justified anything he did, I just pointed out that he had all of his facts wrong.

 

[kt_atis]

So there's nothing wrong about destroying slavonic race so that the poor German farmers can take their land??? Man, uncle Adolf would be proud!

Yes it is wrong. Please understand I am no Neo-Nazi or anything like that. I am just curious how other people view history. And besides there are many people throughout history who did worst than Hitler. They killed tens of millions more than he did. Like Saddam, Stalin, Mao, the Native American Genocide. Moreover history tells us that war was fought for land and thats what Hitler did. And besides why shouldn't he be in Civ IV? Stalin was way worst than Hitler.

Stalin killed people just because he feared rebellion. Stalin also murdered Jews and wouldn't feed his people or send them any money to eat. Alexander the Great isn't all that Great. He killed women and children throughout all the villages he went through just so there would be very little resistance. Montezuma and his people sacrificed thousands of people daily just to please the sun god. Hitler motives were that of everybody else. He did wrong but they were no different than any other of the guys that I just named. So why shouldn't he be in the game? understand how you all feel but in no way am I for Hitler please understand that. I just want to know how others view him and hence is he liable for a spot in the next Civ.