Question for people who know there city specialization.

[Shocka]

So I feel as if I am finally starting to get the hang of city specialization. I've learn about what to build and how to build them but their is one situation that always bogs me down.

Here is a prime example: So you have a city with lots of floodplains, zero or maybe one hill/ mineral resource. Would you make this city a great person farm or a flourishing science city? I always find myself not knowing exactly how to see the difference for placement for a commerce city or great person farm.

Furthermore I am trying to find if it would be best to decide for a SE or CE economy. I was just wondering what does everyone else prefer?

 

[Shocka]

One more question for the specialist cities how do you know the limit of specialist you should have that will still let your city flourish? Do you decide via the happiness cap?

 

[nullspace]

Floodplains are better for a commerce city than for a specialist city. This is because the commerce city is going to work a large number of tiles, whereas the specialist city will work few tiles and run lots of specialists. For example, if the city has 8 floodplains, a commerce city can work 8 floodplains cottages at size 8. But a specialist city would need to grow to size 8 to work all the farmed floodplains, and then grow to 16 to hire as many specialists as it can. That's not really possible until late in the game. For a specialist city, I'd rather have two or three great food tiles, so I could run lots of specialists early in the game when the city has low population. Also, floodplains always have a river which adds commerce, but doesn't add GPP.

 

[oyzar]

CE is way easier than SE imo it also have more durability past ~liberalism.

 

[Perfect909]

Is the C in CE for culture or commerce or something else? I looked it up in the acrnym thred and didn't see it.

Sorry, ignorant newbie here.

 

[Binky123]

the C in CE refers to cottage, because it stands for 'cottage economy', meaning you get most of your research from cottages commerece. Some other commonly used acronyms are:

SE - specialist economy. People debate about the exact meaning of this, but the basic idea is that you get most of your research (but not necessarily all) from specialists and free techs from great people. They usually build lots of farms, and use the growth to whip units and buildings.

HE - means a hybrid economy or sometimes heroic epic. Hybrid economy just means you use a balance of cottages and specialists and great people.

As far as your specific city specialization goes, nullspace seems right on to me. Large food in multiple tiles (like fish,pig, or corn) work well for a great person production city.

I also find that when running a cottage economy, establishing a military based production city with the heroic epic is more important since you have less production from whipping than in an SE.

 

[OTAKUjbski]

Don't forget about the FE. Snaaty has a really good thread going on right now about how he runs a Food Economy focused on trade routes and stuff. It's really trippy stuff and can be found here:

FE - Food Economy (Difference to SE & CE)

At least for me, CE is easier to run than SE. Without trying to make any one look better than the other, these are some of the most major differences I've noticed so far:

• CE is more heavily dependent upon the Science slider than SE.
• CE is less civic-restrictive than SE.
• CE is arguably stronger from Liberalism to Biology.
• CE cannot be rebuilt easily if razed. SE can just be re-farmed.
• CE is less building-dependent than SE.
• CE requires less population than SE -- thus has lower maintenance costs.

In a recent thread, I did a baseline comparison of a Specialist-based Science City vs. a Town-based Science City. It was a head-to-head comparison without any regard to the rest of the empire. The strengths and weaknesses I list for the Science City are very similar to what you'll experience in between an SE and a CE.

Head-to-head challenge.

In the end, I recommend trying them both, because they are both equally viable strategies.

 

[Kietharr]

A quick guide for city specialization:

Production city: Plains hills, food resources (preferably pigs, fish, or irrigated grains, you want to get the most food possible per food tile to allow more people to work hammer tiles), metals, stone/marble, animals (Deer, pigs, grassland sheep, grassland cow are mainly food, horse, plains sheep and plains cow are mainly production, good any way). Put a Barracks, Forge, Factory, Granary, Stable, Drydock (if coastal), Heroic Epic (best production city only), Westpoint (I suggest stacking with heroic epic, if you have a good Ironworks site that can work too). Ideal specialists are Engineers and Great Generals settled for extra XP. The goal of these cities is to produce military units.

Science City: Floodplains, Grassland, food resources a plus but lots of fertile land is more important. Holy cities are prime candidates with a shrine for extra commerce. Commerce luxuries are also nice, as it saves you time building and growing cottages, especially gold early on. Build Libraries, Markets, Grocers, Banks, Observatories, Acadamies (need a Great Scientist for these, put in your best cities first), Oxford (in your best science city), Wallstreet (if it's also a holy city), Great Library is great for your best science city. Best specialists are of course scientists, merchants are also ok as they add commerce that goes to research.

Great People Farms: Lots of food tiles, grain, animals, seafood, farmed floodplains will do in a pinch. Buildings include anything that lets you run a specialist, depending on what great person you want. An alternative method is having a production city that builds lots of wonders for GPP, although this is harder as you go up in difficulty. Personally, I like to run scientists as I find them the best great people, engineers are also very cool for getting your pick of the wonders you want. But naturally, you can run lots of any specialist depending on what great person you want.

Ironworks city: A late game production tactic. A long river and lots of grassland/floodplain tiles are what I like. I run state property and watermill the river tiles and farm the non river tiles, then run a TON of engineers in the city. It's like a production city but it gains it production from specialists and watermills. A conquered enemies capital city is actually usually a really nice spot for an ironworks city, because you have infrastructure built up in your capital which would be a pain to tear down to make room for these improvements. Naturally you want the ironworks in this city, I usually pair it with scotland yard because the rest of the decent national wonders are taken up by the time I'm making my Ironworks city. Forges, Factories, Grocers/Aqueducts/Hospitals (the production buildings create tons of sickness and you can't afford to waste much food in a specialist city). Airport is also a good choice lategame for any production city as it lets your units get from your production centers to the front lines instantly. Also, the engineers will probably get you a great engineer before the game is over.

As for economies, both are viable, but in the higher levels most people will run a specialist economy because it is easier to keep running during continued warmongering, which becomes more and more nessicary as you go up in difficulty. I personally prefer a hybrid economy, cottaging up conqured lands while using specialists in my homeland, so I can turn science up for an extra boost while still being able to turn it off to get money for unit upgrades. I also tend to be mean to my conqured people whipped: ), which is counterproductive to a specialist based economy, although I do farm up some really nice cities with lots of food just so I can whip and draft everything I want.

 

[cabert]

flood plains = science city, whatever economy you run.

In the early game, with low happiness cap, it's often good to farm 1 FP and cottage the rest. This way, you can grow a little faster to your happy cap and work the cottages faster. After that, if you want to run specialists, you may or may not (happy cap dependant) need to work the farm. But I can't see why you would need to work more than 1 farm for a loooong time:
- 2 FP cottages feed 1 scientist
- 1 farm feeds 1 scientist.
let's check the happy caps for a while :

happy cap at 1 : time to stop whipping . no farm needed, no growth required. assign a scientist.
happy cap at 2 : working a cottage and assigning a scientist gives growth. Every now and then you can assign 2 scientists to avoid growth. No farm needed obviously.
happy cap at 3 : working a farm and assigning 2 scientists give no growth. 1 farm is enough. You could also work 2 cottages and 1 scientist for a better output but slower GPP generation.
happy cap at 4 : working 2 cottages and assigning 2 scientists give no growth. No farm needed.
happy cap at 5 : working 3 cottages and assigning 2 scientists gives growth. Assigning a third scientist (if available = caste system) once in a while will avoid growth. No farm needed. You could also work 2 farms and 3 scientists. but this requires caste system for a really small gain and really lower output.

After that, we enter the happy domain = above the usual early happiness caps. The choice here is between castes sytem and slavery. If you intend to run caste system, farms can be better.

happy cap at 6 : working 4 cottages and assigning 2 scientists gives growth. Assigning a third scientist (if available = caste system) once in a while will avoid growth. No farm needed.
You could also work 2 farms, 1 cottage and 3 scientists (sometimes 4). but this requires caste system for a really small gain and really lower output.
You could also work 3 farms (half the time 2), 3 specialists (half the time 4). We're entering SE domain here. If you intend to run Caste System and some SE enhancing civics (representation and/or pacifism) it may be good.

After that, we're entering a health problematic zone, let's assume no health issue.

happy cap at 7 : working 4 cottages and assigning 3 scientists gives no growth. No farm needed. If you don't run caste system, a priest or a merchant or an engineer or a plains hill mine can avoid growth. If needed, a good whip can bring down the pop if needed or building workers can make a good use of the food surplus.
You could also work 3 farms and 4 scientists. Not a lot better, if you ask me and a certainly lesser output even with representation.

happy cap at 8 : working 5 cottages and assigning 3 scientists gives growth. Assigning a 4th scientist once in a will avoid growth. No farm needed. If you're not running caste system, you're certainly in the perfect cottage heaven even if you have no hills to work: working the cottages and still producing (whip!) the necessary buildings (including the health bonus buildings, the research bonus buildings, the happy buildings).
You could also work 4 farms (sometimes 3) and 4 scientists, sometimes 5.

I won't go further, since after that we're not into reality. more than 5 FP and no health problems isn't very likely.
However, note that with only 4 FP and a happy cap at 9, you could work 4 farms and feed 5 scientists.