Just wondering, what would happen to the immortal units the civilizations can create? Since they can die and get resurrected, does it mean that they would never get to pass to the vaults of their respective Gods and never get reborn? What about the Grigori whom became Immortal? Just came up with this thought as in my game playing Grigori, I got the Immortal unit and got me thinking. Thanks.
Question on Immortals
- Thread starter rxrx
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As the Civilopedia specifically states that mortals go to the vault of the god they served in life, regardless of whether they knew it or not, I imagine Grigori immortality is pretty much the same as other mortals. Luonnatar might have a different afterlife, but I don't know about that. As for the first question, I imagine it probably does mean they cannot pass to a vault and be reborn.
MagisterCultuum
Great Sage
While one does not have to be aware of serving a god in order to be destined for that divinity's vault (hardly anyone who serves Mammon realizes it), the majority of souls do not have enough devotion to a specific god for their souls to be claimed by anyone. Any unclaimed soul is destined for Arawn's underworld. There they fashion their own heaven, hell, or purgatory, as they form the dream-scape of the fate that they subconsciously believe they deserve. However, the journey to the next world is not instant. Upon death a soul becomes a Sluagh, and experiences a strong urge to move on. (I'm not sure if they are all drawn to Arawn's vault and some are merely intercepted along the way or if devoted sluaghs are drawn directly to their gods' vaults.) While most sluaghs give in to this urge rather quickly, it is possible to have a strong enough will to resist this pull and remain on Erebus indefinitely.
I suspect that the resurrection of immortals works much the same way as the resurrection spell, except without the need for outside assistance from a spell caster. Resurrection only works before the Sluagh has left the plane of Erebus. No mortal is capable of calling a soul from another plane (except maybe with the Netherblade). (The Elohim employ special methods to capture the souls of their leaders immediately upon death in order to make resurrection easier.) For the resurrection spell to work on a sluagh that has already departed for its god's vault requires that that god first send it back. The only god who is known to have ever answered the prayers of a mortals and allow souls in his possession to return for resurrection is Camulos. Both Baron Duin Halfmorn and Charadon belonged to him and dwelt in his vault before being resurrected in the Age of Rebirth. Tebryn Arbandi and Arthendain also returned to life after passing to another vault, but their souls were allowed to return as a favor from one god to another (respectively, Camulos to Ceridwen and Arawn to Sucellus). (It may be worth nothing that although Arthendain is a hero of the Runes of Kilmorph, he was apparently not devoted enough to the earth mother for her to claim him. He passed on to Arawn, and came back because Sucellus wanted him to serve him by stopping Mary Morbus. It is unclear if Sucellus even has a vault now. He seems to be staying in Erebus in non-corporeal form, and the mortal souls he claims seem to return to live instead of being processed into angels.)
I suspect that the resurrection of immortals works much the same way as the resurrection spell, except without the need for outside assistance from a spell caster. Resurrection only works before the Sluagh has left the plane of Erebus. No mortal is capable of calling a soul from another plane (except maybe with the Netherblade). (The Elohim employ special methods to capture the souls of their leaders immediately upon death in order to make resurrection easier.) For the resurrection spell to work on a sluagh that has already departed for its god's vault requires that that god first send it back. The only god who is known to have ever answered the prayers of a mortals and allow souls in his possession to return for resurrection is Camulos. Both Baron Duin Halfmorn and Charadon belonged to him and dwelt in his vault before being resurrected in the Age of Rebirth. Tebryn Arbandi and Arthendain also returned to life after passing to another vault, but their souls were allowed to return as a favor from one god to another (respectively, Camulos to Ceridwen and Arawn to Sucellus). (It may be worth nothing that although Arthendain is a hero of the Runes of Kilmorph, he was apparently not devoted enough to the earth mother for her to claim him. He passed on to Arawn, and came back because Sucellus wanted him to serve him by stopping Mary Morbus. It is unclear if Sucellus even has a vault now. He seems to be staying in Erebus in non-corporeal form, and the mortal souls he claims seem to return to live instead of being processed into angels.)
I don't see why the grigori would be any different in terms of going to an afterworld when they die. The grigori never said they don't believe in the afterlife, they just don't agree with worshiping others to get there. If I understand correctly, Cassiel is an angel, so there shouldn't be any reason for them to disbelieve!
Could you do me a favour and remind of the difference between these people and those destined to become Tar Demons?
Rather than merely taking the souls that naturally drift to the Hells, the infernal powers claim all the souls they can get away with. You can the most extreme version of the theft in Ars Moriendi's civolopedia entry, with Ars actually killing the servant of another god to unjustly claim a soul.
I assume blatant theft of that sort is rare, and only occurs when the powers of Hell are great. Rather, mostly they take souls that are drifting towards Arawn's vault, and where there can at least CLAIM the soul was devoted to a god of Hell. Thus, if a person served, say, Kilmorph, in life, but without strong devotion, they'd go to Arawn's vault. If a soul served Mammon (or any other of the gods of Hell, but Mammon is far and away the most common amongst ordinary people) without strong devotion, they would normally go to Arawn's vault, but an agent of hell hijacks the soul and sends it to Mulcarn's instead.
Verdian
King
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Do you know why they do this? Is there a story associated with this bit of knowledge?
MagisterCultuum
Great Sage
As I said, in order to make resurrection easier, especially in the case of assassinations. When enemies care enough to assassinate the leader, there must be a reason why the Elohim would want them to stay alive. It also makes prosecution the assassins and uncovering their conspiracies much easier if the victim can testify. The only known method sure to bypass these precautions is the Netherblade, which is why Rathaus Denmora was the assassin assigned to take out Ethne the White in The Wages of Sin scenario.
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