Question on Native American Civ

[sela1s1son]

What are the city names? Do they follow one or two tribes or is each city a tribal name?

Also how does this impact the "barbarian cities" having names of some Native tribes? If they are in they still use them, or never again?

 

[chopstyx]

I'm playing against the Native Americans in my first game currently, some of their more memorable city names were Snaketown & Poverty Point.

I have captured their capital but I can't remember its name. It wasn't something I've heard before.

But then I'm neither American nor Native American so perhaps it's a well known name on the other side of the pond. I'll take a look in the xml file when I get home tonight and post the full list up here.

 

[sela1s1son]

Erg... I'm not liking the sound of that. Are they trying to do a wild west theme for them? I really dislike the name Poverty Town, while they Natives were certainly horribly mistreated... that's just ridiculous to have that as a city name in a game like this. Poor taste, very poor taste... for many reasons.

I'm becoming more convinced I may want to mod them to the Sioux. I'm likely to nab the city list from Civ II just for that.

 

[Spearthrower]

I'm definitely going to mod these guys (name, city names, spell leader name correctly etc) and do them some of the justice they deserve.

 

[MangleMeElmo]

I'm playing against the Native Americans in my first game currently, some of their more memorable city names were Snaketown & Poverty Point.

Just when I thought the creators of this game had no sense of humor...

 

[Molon Labe]

I think you guys are missing the point that those are the names of actual places. They didn't make them up to either be funny or as a dig against Native Americans.

Rename them Sioux if it floats your boat. Personally I think that Firaxis made them the "NA" civilization because if they were just Sioux, or Cherokee there would be all the polls here saying:

Do you prefer the Sioux to:

Seminoles
Chehalis
Washoe
Aleut
Chappaquiddick
Wenatchee

...ad infinitum.

 

[Spearthrower]

No one said that they weren't real, but they also aren't the names of the original settlements. We have to presume that we are playing a civ that isnt subjugated to foreign powers (or what's the point?), so we also want to use the genuine nominatives.

Sorry but I also dont think your argument holds.... if it were true then why not just call all the European civs "The Native Europeans" etc etc?

Anyway, people will always argue over these things - surely that is the entire point of posting on a forum, to forward ideas and to debate them!

 

[sela1s1son]

I think you guys are missing the point that those are the names of actual places. They didn't make them up to either be funny or as a dig against Native Americans.

Perhaps, but then couldn't they make the names of tribes cities? Giving it a "Western flair" or a name like that just stands out like and eyesore.

As for the Choosing NA over Sioux I disagree to a degree as the Sioux were in Civ II and Iroquois in Civ III and both were pretty readily welcomed. I don't think we would see more debate on it then "Khmer or Vietnam or Polynesia, etc" threads.

If nothing else, even if Poverty Point is a place it just seems like a bad name for both the NA to have and just brings bad nothing but bad thoughts. Again it seems like poor taste and insulting both to Natives and non-Natives who might feel terrible for what happened in both people's histories.

Still, I think the NA as a civ name, while all encompassing, feels like a cop out. Sure not picking a specific tribe might be avoided as I can think of at least three to five tribes I'd say deserve a nod, but the generalizing of large groups of people like that into one civ? Ugh... it'd be like have "Western European" or "Middle Eastern" as a civ in the game. Know what I mean? I'm not even to keen on the UB... it fits one aspect, but it stills feels uncomfortable to me.

----

Gameplay wise: How is the UB? The UU? What is Sitting Bull like game wise... does he tend to go for a certain religion? Good diplomacy music?

 

[Arwon]

Isn't Poverty Point a fairly significant archaeological site of the mound builder culture?

 

[LDeska]

I played my first BtS game as Indians - great civ! I remember only Poverty something as a name of city.

They're really great, in the early game, when opponent doesn't know what you are researching, you may choose to research Misticism and Hunting -> Archery, build Barracks and Totem - then you get archers with four promotions But there is better tech tree path - Mining and Bronze Working, introduce Slavery and send 2-3 Dog Soldiers to choke opponent (in games 1 vs 1).

Sitting Bull is also philosophical, so you can keep up with techs research, if you get the Pyramids and Great Library, then you're out of reach. I tried this yesterday, but I managed to build only Pyramids and game was won by me, because my colleague didn't resisted massive attack of horse archers with support of Elephants and Catapults...

 

[chopstyx]

Isn't Poverty Point a fairly significant archaeological site of the mound builder culture?

That reminds me, Mound City was another one of their cities.

I kinda like the names they have. It's much better than some indecipherable names like the Zulu or Aztec cities have IMO.

 

[sela1s1son]

Enh, one city isn't so bad.... even two can be acceptable. Kinda like how my dad didn't like the city "Killdeer" in Civ II. .. ironically a Sioux city (ironic due to my earlier posts).

Maybe I'm a pessimist. I've been debating between Ethiopia and Native Americans as my first civ in BTS... maybe I'll try the Native Americans to see them in action, so maybe it'll grow on me.

I'm very much glad they're at least represented in some way (finally), and that they seem to be a civ with plenty of opportunities! I'd rather have them in like this then not at all.

For a glass half full interpretation, maybe the city names will give a more "unique" feel at least... letting them feel different while something we can can understand.

Side note: pulling an all nighter on a philosophy test can make one a little pessimistic and or annoyed easier, so hopefully my above posts didn't come across as to whiny!

 

[Radarmaker]

You play civ and are a Philosophy major, eh? Wanna hang out?

 

[Phoenix1595]

Can someone please post the full city list?

 

[Lord Shadow]

Can someone please post the full city list?

<Cities>
  <City>TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_CAHOKIA</City> 
  <City>TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_POVERTY_POINT</City> 
  <City>TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_MOUND_CITY</City> 
  <City>TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_CHACO_CANYON</City> 
  <City>TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_MESA_VERDE</City> 
  <City>TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_SNAKETOWN</City> 
  <City>TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_SPIRO</City> 
  <City>TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_MOUNDVILLE</City> 
  <City>TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_NACOGDOCHES</City> 
  <City>TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_NANIH_WAIYA</City> 
  <City>TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_ANHAICA</City> 
  <City>TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_ETOWAH</City> 
  <City>TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_OCMULGEE</City> 
  <City>TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_KITUHWA</City> 
  <City>TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_FORT_ANCIENT</City> 
  <City>TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_ONONDAGA</City> 
  <City>TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_BAWATING</City> 
  <City>TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_ACOMA</City> 
  <City>TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_NAMBE</City> 
  <City>TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_HOVENSWEEP</City> 
  <City>TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_CASA_GRANDE</City> 
  <City>TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_CRIEL</City> 
  <City>TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_JOARA</City> 
  <City>TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_LAKE_JACKSON</City> 
  <City>TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_CHOTA</City> 
  <City>TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_ONEIDA</City> 
  <City>TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_LOGSTOWN</City> 
  <City>TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_FIVE_FINGER_RIDGE</City> 
  <City>TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_FRIJOLES_CANYON</City> 
  <City>TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_PUYE_CLIFF</City> 
  <City>TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_KIET_SIEL</City> 
  <City>TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_MONTEZUMA_CASTLE</City> 
  <City>TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_WICKLIFFE</City> 
  <City>TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_AZTALAN</City> 
  <City>TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_ANGEL_MOUNDS</City> 
  <City>TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_TSIREGE</City> 
  <City>TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_TAOS</City> 
  <City>TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_ZUNI</City> 
  <City>TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_TISHOMINGO</City> 
  <City>TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_SHAUGAWAUMIKONG</City> 
  <City>TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_ALLUMETTE</City> 
  <City>TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_WENDAKE</City> 
  <City>TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_NORRIDGEWOCK</City> 
  <City>TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_MUTSUN</City> 
  <City>TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_OZETTE</City> 
  <City>TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_ESTIPAH_SKIKIKINI_KOTS</City> 
  <City>TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_HUECO_TANKS</City> 
  <City>TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_UKPIAGVIK</City> 
  <City>TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_KETCHIKAN</City> 
  <City>TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_KUUJJUAQ</City> 
</Cities>

 

[Phoenix1595]

Thanks, Lord Shadow.

 

[Phoenix1595]

Yeah, it looks like a lot of these city names are archaeological sites in North America, not random "Wild West" names. However, I think I will pass when it comes to "Frijoles Canyon" (frijoles=beans).

 

[Spearthrower]

Yeah the problem isn't their authenticity.... they are all real, not made-up. It's the fact that they are not the original names but the names of the archaeological site or name given by archaeologists to a people or place. It just feels odd to see "Mound City" or "Poverty Point" next to the genuine place names.

It's been years since I studied about the native American Indians and all my books are half a world away, so I don't have lists to hand, but there are plenty of names to fill out the list!

I'm opposite to Chopstyx - I'd rather have unpronouncable, inutterable genuine names than ones given by a later culture. If this rule was extended across all the civs, it could become very ugly.

 

[Rusty Edge]

Well, it is a collection of archeological sites and tribal places from across North America. We don't know the names of the Greater Mississipi valley moundbuilders cities.

You could always go with the names of N.A. rivers and lakes instead, if you want a compromise between pronouncable and authentic.

 

[SkippyT]

That's an interesting list.
They have Inuit names such as Kuujjuaq and they also have Montezuma mountain which is, if I remember correctly, somewhere in Arizona.
Cahokia though, I've never heard of.