Questions about defense

[Rodrig0]

Hello guys!

I'm taking some time off from gaming and I thought I'd ask some questions I'm not quite sure and the civilopedia isn't very clear about. Mostly about defense bonuses. So...

Does a city built on a forest or fortress still get the defensive bonuses of the previous terrain? I know it sounds dumb, but I just want to be sure.
It says a city or a town with walls give a defensive bonus, so a town without walls gives no bonuses? Not even the 10% inherent to regular flat terrain? This is kind of obvious, since a city built on a hill has a 50% def bonus from terrain, a city on flat terrain should at least have the 10% bunus. Still, just want to be sure.
Does terrain give any bombardment defense? Is it harder to bombard a unit on a mountain than one on flat ground?
What about rivers? Units across a river receive bombardment defense?
And aerial bombing? I don't think the game would make such distinction, but seems logical that elevated terrain doesn't make a difference when they're being attacked from the air.
Does coast/sea/ocean give any defensive bonus, like that from flat ground?
Do naval units get the defensive bonus from the town with walls/city/metro they're docked in?
And if the city was built on a hill?

Wow, I should quit smoking that thing Nevermind the last 2 questions, I'd actually never thought about it until now, and TBH they seem inconsequential even to me. Still, if anyone knows...

That'd be all... for now I'll bother you with more questions once I return to play and can think of anything else.

 

[Puppeteer]

Forest is an overlay; when a city is built on it, the forest no longer exists. I haven't used fortresses much, but if they forest isn't visible then it isn't there anymore. So no, you don't get the forest defense bonus. By the way, in vanilla civ if you found a city on a forest you get the 10 shields from the forest, or at least it used to be that way. Not so in PTW or Conquests.

Somewhere somebody did a lot of testing on defense bonuses. I can't find the article just now. But defense bonuses are cumulative, so although a town (< 7 pop) with no walls has no defense bonus, the terrain still does. 10% for flat terrain or 50% for hill terrain. Over size 6 the wall has no effect, but you get a bonus (50%?) for being a size 7-12 city and a 100% bonus for being > size 12.

Bombardment mechanics are somewhat different from fighting mechanics, and I don't recall much about it, but as far as I know bombardment rules are the same whether it's a ground unit, naval unit or air unit. I don't know offhand if terrain gives a bombardment defense bonus. Good question about bombardment across a river.

The civilopedia has defense bonus info for coast/sea/ocean tiles. IIRC it's all 10% like flat terrain. (By the way, this is modifiable in the editor.)

Your question about naval unit defense bonus in a city is invalid. A naval unit can't be attacked while in a city, but it will be destroyed if the ground units are destroyed and the city is captured. I don't know offhand if it's vulnerable to bombardment while in the city...so maybe I'm wrong about the invalidity.

 

[Quintillus]

Ships are vulnerable to bombardment while in port, both from other ships, planes, and artillery. I don't know if terrain/city bonuses have any effect.

 

[Rodrig0]

Thanx guys!

I must have missed the part where the civilopedia mentions the sea/ocean defense bonus. So now remain the questions about bombing across a river and bombarding ships in cities. I should do some testing.

And now that I mention it, I was thinking about setting some arties on auto-bombardment, and there's something I've been looking for. When I set bombers and artilleries on auto-bombardment, even if the first turn I set arties first and then planes, the next turns planes attack first. Is there a way to change this, so arties injure defending units first and then planes just go for the kill?

And as I'm writing this, it comes to my mind... arties and robotic arties can bombard 2 squares away... so what if they are across TWO rivers?? It would have to double the bonus, maybe rivers don't count for bombardment.

 

[Puppeteer]

I found this post with combat formulae for ground and bombard combat. I recall one where someone made a custom map and did tons of combat trials and deduced a lot from the results, but I still can't find it.

I must have missed the part where the civilopedia mentions the sea/ocean defense bonus.

It's not often you have a reason to look at the civilopedia info for water terrain types, but it's in there.

And as I'm writing this, it comes to my mind... arties and robotic arties can bombard 2 squares away... so what if they are across TWO rivers?? It would have to double the bonus, maybe rivers don't count for bombardment.

Interesting thought. It would be interesting to see test results for that.

 

[TomYo689]

How do you guys know terrain and river has any effect on bombard at all?

I think ships might be more vulnerable when in cities from observation

 

[MysteryX]

I have not done a mathematical analysis, but my casual observation is that artillery bombardment seems to fail more when attacking units on hills or mountains. That makes some sense; hills and mountains give more opportunities for cover than flat land. I have not noticed whether bombardment across a river makes bombardment fail more; but I don't think it would make a lot of sense if it did.

 

[lordmacroer]

why would rivers affect bombardment? The catapults are staying where they are and shooting over the rivers. An artillery could shoot over a smalll lake if it needed it it does not make any difference what the missiles fly over

 

[splunge the 2nd]

Humidity effects? Defense might suffer a penalty in desert