Quick MA question

[SesnOfWthr]

I was given an answer to this question aslready and I'm just looking to corroborate it.

I posted in Quick answers, but no one there had an answer, so I'll play to a larger audience this time.

If you have an MA that has not been canceled, but is past the 20 turns, do you still take a rep hit for destroying the civ?

Or is it just considered canceling the agreement as you've fulfilled the twenty turn requirement?

 

[Gainy]

The only reason you get a rep hit when destroying the civ, is because you are breaking the deal before the 20 turns are up. Hence, if the 20 turns are already finished you are going to get no rep hit
I would have answered that in the Quick Answers thread, but I couldn't see the question for all yer talk about Baseball or whatever it was

 

[Tomoyo]

I don't think you get a rep hit at all if you are destroying a civ in a MA. Therefore you could pay much gpt for tech in a one turn MA and get it canceled.

 

[SesnOfWthr]

So now we have two conflicting answers.

Anyone else want to pipe up?

@Tomoyo - I believe the exploit you are referring to is when your partner destroys the civ.

 

[LAW_FREAK]

Gainy bo is right, if you atack a civ before 20 turns are up(if you have an alliance/treaty) you get a rep hit.

 

[anarres]

Hmm. Actually this is not true.

You get no rep hit for killing someone when you have an MA!

If you have a deal with a civ that dies then yes, you get a rep hit, but there is no rep hit for having an MA that is cancelled by killing the civ.

This BTW leads to a terrible exploit:

1) You are about to kill Civ A (i.e. you have units outside their last city)
2) Go to Civ B, where Civ B needs one or more of your techs and has no money
3) Get an MA with Civ B against Civ A and pay them ALL your GPT as part of the MA deal (note that you should turn down lux and science sliders and also set cities to max commerce tiles, even if they would starve this turn)
4) Sell Civ B your techs - now they have all your GPT they can afford to pay it back to you
5) Now kill Civ A
6) The MA is cancelled without a rep hit, and all your GPT is returned!
7) Set your sliders and cities back to what they were

This means Civ B is paying you GPT that they can't afford, and that they don't have. Civ B carries on the payments to you, and you get lots of GPT that you wouldn't otherwise get.

I have tested this and it works. The rep is fine, and Civ B remains totally broke for 20 turns.

 

[sabo]

I don't understand how you can have an MA with a civ and be at war with them at the same time.. How could that happen?

 

[anarres]

I never said that sabo. I was just pointing out the only way to get a rep hit when a civ dies is to have a deal with them. If you have an MA against them you don't get a rep hit (at least not for gpt deals).

 

[Gogf]

What if the AI destroys it before twenty turns are up? You probably still take a rep hit .

 

[Gainy]

Just to clear things up: My post was written under the impression that there was no doubt that you got a rep hit when destroying the Civ in question before the 20 turns were up -- as you said it had already been answered in the quick answers thread. Infact, you (Sesn) said:

I was aware that destroying the civ counts as breaking the deal WITHIN the twenty turns

That's what I was going by Assuming that was right, I then went on to draw my (fantastic ) conclusion...

Now I need to find out whether that is regarded as an exploit in the HOF

Edit:

What if the AI destroys it before twenty turns are up? You probably still take a rep hit .

I think Anarres just said that there is no rep hit in that situation... (and the other way round)

 

[anarres]

There is no rep hit when you lose an MA deal because the civ in question dies, before the 20 turns or after.

There, I've said it again. Believe me or not, you can test it quite easily.

 

[SesnOfWthr]

I thought this was a known glitch. That destroying a civ you have an MA against counted as a rep hit? I didn't think the AI could distinguish that even though the deal is being broken, that the point of the deal was to try and eliminate the offending civ.

I guess I'll have to explore this a bit more.....

 

[daengle]

3) Get an MA with Civ B against Civ A and pay them ALL your GPT as part of the MA deal (note that you should turn down lux and science sliders and also set cities to max commerce tiles, even if they would starve this turn)
4) Sell Civ B your techs - now they have all your GPT they can afford to pay it back to you

Is this true? What patch are you playing?

It seems wrong that positive and negative GPT deals with the same player on the same turn would even be possible.

 

[anarres]

This is true in C3C on 1.15 an 1.22, but I am pretty sure it is possible in all versions.

 

[HellboundHeathcliff]

Yes, that has always worked assuming the civ wasn't running a negative cash flow that turn. In that case, you *might* get most, but not all, of your gpt back.

On the other topic: Some players avoid killing the civ to avoid the attitude hit. I have noticed that sometimes folks say 'rep' when they mean 'attitude'.

 

[anarres]

There is no attitude hit for killing a civ either though watorrey. The only 'hit' you can get is if you have them as a common enemy with another civ, whereby you lose a +5 (IIRC) attitude bonus.

 

[HellboundHeathcliff]

I have always thought the game didn't like genocide. It's even says so in the manual or someplace (i just remember reading it in some documentation.)

 

[anarres]

I thought that too until I read Bamspeedys Attitude guide:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=44999

-3 if at war with a common enemy

-2 If you then sign an alliance.

So a -5 if you sign an alliance and go to war with that enemy.

.....

No penalty for destroying the last city of an AI (unless you raze it, then just the +1 for a razed city). But the ‘temporary’ effects of doing damage to a common enemy, alliances, etc. will disappear since no one is at war with that civ anymore.

 

[HellboundHeathcliff]

Thanks. Guess i better reread that.