Rallying call for all interested: Colonisation of the Moon mod!

[Belizan]

Ok, I can't use the trick I was thinking of for fuel-based units, but I have thought of another way.

Every turn, onBeginPlayerTurn if Player not isHuman, we walk the list of units.
For each unit which is fuel based and has less then half it's fuel tank, we do the following:

1) Patch up it's fuel tank--If it has 0 (and the out of fuel bit isn't set), we give it it's move in fuel. If it has < then it's move but more then 0, we give it it's move + 1 in fuel.
2) We find the nearest source of fuel (this is hard, given terrain issues)
3) We find a square it canMoveInto within its move range on the path to the fuel.
4) We setXY() the unit to that location
5) We finishMove() the unit
6) setAI to None (just in case)
7) We test for refueling by hand, if it's in the same square as a refueling unit (carrier for instance), we refuel it automatically
8) When it gets refueled, we reset it's ai to Unknown, which I am guessing is used by the engine to mark a unit which needs a new role assigned to it.
This gives the computer some advantages when it comes to it's fuel units, but nothing that major, IMO. The hard part is dealing with different travel modes and finding the shortest path to the nearest fuel depot. Totally solvable, just a lot of work. The second hardest problem is the moving target issue--carriers (or other supply units) can move, making predictive movement problematic. Easiest solution is just to put in a flag "rendezvous" or some such, ref count, say, so that when a unit comes in to rendezvous with a supply unit, it tags that unit so it won't move (and we just finishMove() it every turn at the start of the turn.

Best solution I have so far to the fuel-based units & computer player issues.

 

[The Great Apple]

Are you sure chaging the unitAI is neccessary. Surely if it's got no moves it doesn't matter? Also, won't this mean that AI units will never run out of fuel? What happens if there are no carriers left?

 

[woodelf]

The whole tech tree is generated dynamically in python using the information in the xml files. The process is quite clever.

One thing to note while adding techs - the order that you put them in is important. If you do it wrong, all the arrows show up squiffy, and the tech chooser just doesn't work! I've a feeling the rule is that at least one of a tech's prequesites has to be before it in the file, but I'd check in the tutorials forum to be sure.

I'm completely "borrowing" Kael's FfH tech tree and have substituted new techs for his in exactly the same spot. Going from low to high I should eliminate the problems you mentioned. We'll see....

Since I can't test out how it looks because of an abundance of XML errors I'll have to wait and see.

 

[matthewv]

Hi Everyone,

I would like to help out in making this mod a reality.
Right now I will work programing the XML for the resourses outlined in the bible. (hopefully no one else has done this yet)

If Haarbal doesnt mind I could also work on some of the terrian graphics.

@Haarbal
Can you plz let me know which terrian types you have done the graphics for so that I can help on the terrian graphics.

 

[woodelf]

Hi Everyone,

I would like to help out in making this mod a reality.
Right now I will work programing the XML for the resourses outlined in the bible. (hopefully no one else has done this yet)

If Haarbal doesnt mind I could also work on some of the terrian graphics.

@Haarbal
Can you plz let me know which terrian types you have done the graphics for so that I can help on the terrian graphics.

Welcome matthew. I'll speak for JBG and all of us and say welcome aboard! The more the merrier on this trip to the Moon.

I don't know if anyone has done what you're thinking of doing. Did you scan back a few pages and see what JBG has completed? I think he did terrain improvements, but not resources. Think being the dangerous word.

 

[Haarbal]

Hi Everyone,

I would like to help out in making this mod a reality.
Right now I will work programing the XML for the resourses outlined in the bible. (hopefully no one else has done this yet)

If Haarbal doesnt mind I could also work on some of the terrian graphics.

@Haarbal
Can you plz let me know which terrian types you have done the graphics for so that I can help on the terrian graphics.

well at the moment i'm still screwing up all the terain , and working/schooling/partying
and also i'm not that handy with GIMP/other painting programs.
so i still have none of the terrain files finished at the moment

 

[matthewv]

@Haarbal
Thanks for letting know how your doing. I will try my hand at the terrian graphics. Hopefully things go better for me.

I got all the resources in XML but do not have the terrian types needed for each resourse or the change in production, etc. do to each resource as I do not know what to but for these since they are not listed in the bible.

 

[woodelf]

@Haarbal
Thanks for letting know how your doing. I will try my hand at the terrian graphics. Hopefully things go better for me.

I got all the resources in XML but do not have the terrian types needed for each resourse or the change in production, etc. do to each resource as I do not know what to but for these since they are not listed in the bible.

I'd say just use common sense and enter in the terrain for each resource. It can always be changed later, but getting it finished now would be a big step.

 

[Belizan]

Are you sure chaging the unitAI is neccessary. Surely if it's got no moves it doesn't matter? Also, won't this mean that AI units will never run out of fuel? What happens if there are no carriers left?

Totally not necessary, but... I don't know how the engine manages its units. What I want to avoid is the idea that it says, Ah, I have this unit, I want it to go to place A) (farther then my fuel/2 limit will let me reach). It starts to go there, then, I can't move it for a few turns, then I can move it again, well, let's keep moving towards A. By resetting the unit AI I hope to force the computer to make a new plan for the unit once it is refueled. To limit the possibility that it will just yo-yo its units around (which seems likely).

 

[Falkonite]

I'm very sorry, but I believe I can not participate in this project any more, as I have tons of things coming up (including masses of exams) and CivIV is - as stupid as it sounds - is in the wrong end of my priority-list.
Sorry guys, I have faith in that this project can and will succeed.

Play hard, play fair,
-Falkonite

 

[woodelf]

No problem Falkonite, RL always comes first. If you happen to get some free time and want to delve back in let us know.

Maybe haarbal will take up the civs since he has so much practice from his Fantasy pak.

 

[JBG]

Right. Welcome, mattewv, and farewell, Falkonite - I agree with woodelf - if you get bored, we'll welcome you back.

Sorry about my periodic absences, but thanks to a bit of swift rearranging, I've managed to get a clear week. I had to step on a few necks, but it's done.

So. If there are no other takers I might just dive into the civs XML and finish them off.

Haarbal, how does one go about editing terrain artwork? Can you replace the .nif files with .dds files as one can with leaderheads or does it get more complicated? What I'm getting at, is that (provided I know how) I can try and get some terrain artwork done.

Since I saved the majority of the civ. flags in my prime graphics maker program, I can go back and make full-sized detailed leaderhead pics IF I haven't been pipped to the post by anyone.

Did Falkonite send us any of his work before he left?

I can quite easily collate what I have done so far into game-useable files - the only question is finishing them off.

Woodelf, I wouldn't get too Arthur C. Clarke-ish about the far-end of the tech tree. Keep it simple, believable and within the foreseeable future.

I'll get on with the civs then. It's nice to be back.

 

[woodelf]

Woodelf, I wouldn't get too Arthur C. Clarke-ish about the far-end of the tech tree. Keep it simple, believable and within the foreseeable future.

I'll get on with the civs then. It's nice to be back.

Good to have you back JBG! Time for some momentum on this project.

Are turns a year, a month? Maybe a month would be best. This might be in the bible, but I've forgotten.

So during the 1st era the colonies are producing Helium-3 and sending it back to Earth for food and supplies and more workers/colonists? Then we get a cataclysm of some variety and it's fend for yourself time? That would work with how early tech is simply basic Lunar stuff and then it becomes a race for survival with no outside aid. That could also explain the early military units and the lack of need for tech for them.

I'll try not to go too extreme on the techs, but right now I only have about 10-12 left for roughly 24 4th era spots. Like I've said before....playtesting will be a big help to that and everything.

 

[JBG]

Hmm. Yes, a month would be best. That will, however (if one thinks about it) reduce the time scope of the scenario and therefore either technologies will have to take longer to research or be less powerful. Even if go forward one hundred years, that would give us 1,200 turns (which would seem to be a lot).

Alternatively we could have an abstract timekeeping system. Keeping it as the years model, we could start at year one and ascend from there - but if we were to rename 'years' to (literally) 'turns' that might work...

But for the sake of simplicity we ought probably to go for months. Which (assuming we want a 5-600) turn game would restrict us to a 40-50 year game timeframe to work in. Is it possible to have two (or three) months per turn? Having each turn be three months (we could have 'quarters') sounds better.

 

[woodelf]

Hmm. Yes, a month would be best. That will, however (if one thinks about it) reduce the time scope of the scenario and therefore either technologies will have to take longer to research or be less powerful. Even if go forward one hundred years, that would give us 1,200 turns (which would seem to be a lot).

Alternatively we could have an abstract timekeeping system. Keeping it as the years model, we could start at year one and ascend from there - but if we were to rename 'years' to (literally) 'turns' that might work...

But for the sake of simplicity we ought probably to go for months. Which (assuming we want a 5-600) turn game would restrict us to a 40-50 year game timeframe to work in. Is it possible to have two (or three) months per turn? Having each turn be three months (we could have 'quarters') sounds better.

I'm almost certain you can do quarters. You can also change from era to era how many years/turn. But, quarters would be best I think so it all stays linear.

 

[matthewv]

@JBG
I played around with the terrain graphics a bit and you can change the graphics but changing two .dds files called *blend.dds and *detail.dds for each terrain type. I found that a good way to mod the graphics is to make the *blend file grayish (Do not change trasparent area of the file) and make the *detail file to reflect the type of terrain you want. I have been working on the cratered, dust sea, dust plains, and bare rock terrains.

Has anyone changed the XML Files for the terrain inprovements yet?
If not I can easily do it because I have already done resourses and terrain inprovements depend on the resourses.

 

[woodelf]

It'd probably be a good idea to list what is done or being worked on and maybe JBG can post it on the first page somewhere.

What I've done in XML:

1st and 2nd era techs, most of 3rd.
30-40 buildings in Civ4BuildingClassInfos and Civ4BuildingInfos.
15-20 units in Civ4UnitClassInfos and Civ4UnitInfos.

The techs are all linked to new buttons. I have dds files for most of the buildings and none of the units. I don't know when we'll be getting new artwork for either...

 

[Haarbal]

...
Haarbal, how does one go about editing terrain artwork? Can you replace the .nif files with .dds files as one can with leaderheads or does it get more complicated? What I'm getting at, is that (provided I know how) I can try and get some terrain artwork done.
...

i don't think it's possible to replace the terrain with static things, because the units move over it, so if there is a mountain, they'll get higher. i haven't tried it though...
some time ago, i figured out how to change the colour of the entire picture (yes, i really suck at gimp), so i'm trying to use this, to keep the textures looking nice, and not ugly messed up if i had to do them

haarbal

 

[dsquared]

Well Better Late than never,

I was going to do a civ 3 moon mod however civ 4 was coming out in a couple months so I held off, what you guys have so far is awesome. Here are some thoughts I have.

• Ditch Fuel completely, civ 4's air treatment is OK but with upped damage could be better. So a Fleet of attackers is at a significant disadvantage to a prepared enemy but fleet on fleet carrier task forces approximately equal. Radar towers add air attack def bonus perhaps in addition to LOS.
• Return the Airfield improvement, spawn invis 0 mov capturable carrier unit on tile
• I always loved the rebellion in civ2 but implementation is ugly
• The map looks water (dust sea) poor making navies underpowered unless several capitals start on that long snaky river, if so then naval supremacy would be vital to survival of capital which could be fun
• Add a SAL (Surface-to-Air Laser) battery, no atmosphere=nearly no range dissipation and since our military is close to this anyways it is likely to be used in combat on moon
• Laser countermeasure techs: mirroring front of delivery vehicle etc normal stealth tech to lower radar cross sections etc
• You said way earlier in thread you want an incentive for solar panels well how about make every pop unit and building require one panel. so replace health with power and every solar panel delivers one health to nearest city (finally a use for all those tiles outside the city's fat cross)
• This would also make defending territory important as pillaging outlying solar power farms becomes devastating.
• Of course a National wonder Tokamak Fusion reactor would solve much of a civ's power problems but requires He3 resource (this is a major driver for returning to the moon in real life as well He3 is plentiful on moon and rare on earth)
• National or World Wonder Microwave Transmission Satellites for selling excess power to earth, generates commerce based on excess power available so solar panels dont become useless overnight
• MPS constellation, Moon Positioning Satellites would be just as important to an advanced moon military as they are to an earth-based one, World Wonder candidate here, adds special promotions to all units? +25%? Balance issues here.
• ICBMS => EMP weapons, destroy improvements and buildings only but effects on populace would be spread over 10-20 turns during infrastructure rebuilding. SDI can remain approximately the same.

I love how this is shaping up though and I'd like to help out if I can, Better late than never after all.

- D^2

 

[Belizan]

• Ditch Fuel completely, civ 4's air treatment is OK but with upped damage could be better. So a Fleet of attackers is at a significant disadvantage to a prepared enemy but fleet on fleet carrier task forces approximately equal. Radar towers add air attack def bonus perhaps in addition to LOS.

You mean the radar tower provides some sort of bonus to... whom? Units on the same square? The nearest city? Or are you saying the radar tower is a building not an improvement?

• Return the Airfield improvement, spawn invis 0 mov capturable carrier unit on tile

Theoretically straightforward, but many other folks seem to have had trouble with this one :/.

• I always loved the rebellion in civ2 but implementation is ugly

Need the SDK for this. You can't add players. Best we might be able to do is reserve a certain number of unused players via the WB (since we have a scenario anyway) and then reactivate them. I have heard of this being done, but have not looked at it.

• You said way earlier in thread you want an incentive for solar panels well how about make every pop unit and building require one panel. so replace health with power and every solar panel delivers one health to nearest city (finally a use for all those tiles outside the city's fat cross)

Can you make a resource/improvement delivery one health per via XML? Or is this something I would need to research?

• MPS constellation, Moon Positioning Satellites would be just as important to an advanced moon military as they are to an earth-based one, World Wonder candidate here, adds special promotions to all units? +25%? Balance issues here.

Well, I think many nations could have an MPS system (I mentioned this briefly before, but I wasn't sure what the real life physics were for stable orbits around the moon. We could develop our own sat/killer sat ruleset and add it on to the game. Allow people to build additional sats/killer sats to effect a satellite coverage rating, then each turn grant every unit of each faction a promotion that reflected that faction's satellite coverage during that turn.