Rallying call for all interested: Colonisation of the Moon mod!

woodelf said:
I'm not sure where we'd go with it, but the whole cultural expansion is bugging me. Cities rarely expand in concentric circles or uniformly. More likely a frontier town would pick where to expand and go that direction. That's kind of what I was thinking, but it's not a huge priority.
Click to expand...

Well, I see what you mean, but for the Moon Mod, we're kind of already there. We use power as our analog for culture, and the power grid is expanded by explicit improvements. It's not quite the same system you were describing, but it has a similar effect.
 
Belizan said:
Well, I see what you mean, but for the Moon Mod, we're kind of already there. We use power as our analog for culture, and the power grid is expanded by explicit improvements. It's not quite the same system you were describing, but it has a similar effect.
Click to expand...

Well if you start staying up at night thinking of a solution to this I would find a use for it elsewhere.... ;)
 
Belizan said:
There have been a lot of reports done by NASA and independent researchers talking all about the issues and troubles with Lunar Dust and how it will eventually get into everything and the trouble that will cause. I can dig up some links if you are interested in reading about it.
Click to expand...

O, I'm not that determined to get to the core of an issue. Just a remark that popped up while reading.

Belizan said:
The idea I had for dust spreading would be two fold, the first degree would be like a fallout feature--A feature which diminshed the production of whatever square it overran.

The second derivitive would be to put an actual full on "Dust" feature on the tile rendering it useless until cleared.
Click to expand...

Well, the first sounds only viable for a planet which has at least something of an atmosphere. "Fallout" comes of a sudden after a real storm or something, not something that would happen on the moon.

The second sounds more viable for a place like the moon. An area get evenly covered because the dust from somewhere else was charged, put in the "air" and deposited later when the activator (a sun particle storm?) goes back to normal.

...OH! Right.. I was going to remove them at the start of each player's turn and replace them if you had access to the tech. Right, ok.. that was the plan. So, yeah, we could put in a survey station requirement, make the survey spots only show up in sight range of an survey capable unit or a station. Is that what you were suggesting?
Click to expand...

The suggestion was twofold. Or the line of sight of a passing prospector, or a fixed improvement which simulates a selenological (what a name ;) ) outpost in which the the resident selenologist/prospector discovers the "new" first tier resource. Hehe, that scout-with-helmet will get a job after all. And since appearantly the surface won't be completely covered by improvements (glasshouses and such) anymore, there should be room to put them down. I would suggest that a prospector is able to "check" all adjacent plots of his position, and a survey station has a 2 or 3 plot radius. On top of that satellites could perhaps discover some sorts of resources as well. Like for nuclear "metals" or ice or hydrogen by the isotopes. For crystaline metals I don't know if they can be discovered remotely this way. This only leaves the old problem of being able to construct stuff outside "cultural borders". (thought that was still a problem?)

As for your specialist idea, we could try to rig up something like that. Right now production bonuses are cludgy to implement in Python. I've only taken a preliminary look at the SDK, and at first blush it looks ludicrously simple to make arbitrary changes to things, but I haven't gone through the process of actually making a change and seeing it carried through to working "in game". That will be a project for later days.
Click to expand...

Well, it popped up since you mentioned a specialist-heavy setup. I gather that in such a system alot of "special specialists" tasks are needed. :D
OTOH, this in a way breaks down on the system of scientist/contractor/engineer unit thing. In a sense scientists and engineers stay mostly within the bases (specialist-types) and only a constructor unit takes care of building stuff on the surface.
 
Ok, I have a first pass working version for 1.61. I'm puting it up on Yousendit. I'd like us to review it, make sure it's stable before we put it out as the new release. Tomorrow, I'm going to look at merging this new working version with the additions put in, in the old not so working version to try to recover all our changes that are in limbo in the dead bugged version. If I can't get it to work, we'll just move forward with our new working version.

I know that somewhere I missed a GlobalDefine setting in this 1.61 version that has recreated the food bug. I'll look for it again tomorrow. I noticed on my version that I was getting some minimap striations. Matt ran into this probelm before, hopefully he'll show up again and we'll be able to solve it. For the nonce I'm intending to ignore it.

http://s33.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=3S8CA8L0G85L81SW3PNJTWG6F8
 
Belizan said:
Done with the XML work for 1.61. Patching up the Python files now. I hope I didn't miss anything Matt put in CvEventManager other then Woodelf's movie fix.

Updating the MainInterface now.

Any word on those buttons, Woodelf? Also what happened with looking into replacing the starting slide show?
Click to expand...

Oops, I forgot to delegate that. After seeing buttons that people are doing in photoshop I've stopped doing them myself, too crappy.
 
Belizan said:
Ok, I have a first pass working version for 1.61. I'm puting it up on Yousendit. I'd like us to review it, make sure it's stable before we put it out as the new release. Tomorrow, I'm going to look at merging this new working version with the additions put in, in the old not so working version to try to recover all our changes that are in limbo in the dead bugged version. If I can't get it to work, we'll just move forward with our new working version.

I know that somewhere I missed a GlobalDefine setting in this 1.61 version that has recreated the food bug. I'll look for it again tomorrow. I noticed on my version that I was getting some minimap striations. Matt ran into this probelm before, hopefully he'll show up again and we'll be able to solve it. For the nonce I'm intending to ignore it.

http://s33.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=3S8CA8L0G85L81SW3PNJTWG6F8
Click to expand...

Nice work Belizan. I won't be able to test it out until much later tonight, maybe Geo can. ;)
 
Belizan said:
Any word on those buttons, Woodelf? Also what happened with looking into replacing the starting slide show?
Click to expand...

The starting slide show (and fixed introscreens) have already been done. I got a backup of them. Can sent them over anytime you need it.

Game report:
It ran stable on the 30odd turns I played, the only thing I noticed was that the diplomatic stance notifiers aren't present anymore. The +2this -3that things next to the leader when having diplomatic talks.

For the rest graphic glitches, I've attached pics of them below.
The weirdest thing is that the grid "enlarges" itself to a global scale when you zoom out. The half black/white view is something I can't remember ever have seen. Don't bother the white flags, I didn't incorporate the flagfix in this test. ;)
 
Ugh, I forgot about the half/half problem. I haven't seen that in ages.

How could the patch cause those screenies? Eeeww
 
Belizan said:
Hrmm... weird. Not sure what the story is with that. I didn't do any of the terrain or mapscript work even, really. That was all Matt's stuff. Has anyone heard from him?

As for the slide show stuff, I'll happily take that.

Are we getting JBG to do a new soundtrack for the slide show to replace the Nimoy speech?
Click to expand...

I thought JBG had at least disabled it so Nimoy didn't speak, or maybe that was another mod. A nice space soundtrack during loading would be cool.
 
Snarko's not entirely correct though. You basically have three issues. One, disabling the default culture ring in the GlobalDefines. Two, removing all normal culture spread (either by removing culture production and using your own internal tracking--which would be what I would do--or by reversing the default culture growth pattern). Third, whenever your new algorithm dictates the city should be able to claim a new square, you have to create an interface by which this occurs, and then you set the culture value for that square to some appropriate value. You'll have to decided for yourself how to handle things like Cultural warfare and the like to the extent that you want to worry about such things.

The SDK is not necessary for this at all (though you could certainly use it to accomplish this, and depending on how you expand the system in the future, it might even prove to be more effective in the long run).
 
Ahh, yeah, a unit can be made to grant cultural influence in a square, even as the result of building an improvement. That's not even particularly hard.

But it will not necessarily work the way you want it to without some further thought. For instance... Improvements can only be built inside your cultural borders. So do you build adjacent to where you want to claim? And if so, then there would be some sort of selection process upon completing the improvement. Or do you use an action button? With a simulated timer perhaps? This can also be accomplished with some experimentation. Ok, then, what about the existing methods of cultural expansion? How do you rationalize the two?

But the short answer to your question is.. Sure, it's possiblein Python without the SDK.
 
Belizan said:
Snarko's not entirely correct though. You basically have three issues. One, disabling the default culture ring in the GlobalDefines. Two, removing all normal culture spread (either by removing culture production and using your own internal tracking--which would be what I would do--or by reversing the default culture growth pattern). Third, whenever your new algorithm dictates the city should be able to claim a new square, you have to create an interface by which this occurs, and then you set the culture value for that square to some appropriate value. You'll have to decided for yourself how to handle things like Cultural warfare and the like to the extent that you want to worry about such things.

The SDK is not necessary for this at all (though you could certainly use it to accomplish this, and depending on how you expand the system in the future, it might even prove to be more effective in the long run).
Click to expand...

Issues:

1 - I assume that can be done
2 - I would remove all culture from the game. It's worthless in space IMO.
3 - If only adjacent squares can be "worked" what interface would there be? If you move a construction onto one of the workable squares an action button should highlight. If you are on an illegal square your unit can do nothing.

For cultural warfare I'm not sure there would be any until cities starting touching. In that case (since culture can't spread naturally) you'd have to be at war to send a constructor to an enemy tile adjacent to your land and then work it into your borders.
 
woodelf said:
Issues:

1 - I assume that can be done
2 - I would remove all culture from the game. It's worthless in space IMO.
3 - If only adjacent squares can be "worked" what interface would there be? If you move a construction onto one of the workable squares an action button should highlight. If you are on an illegal square your unit can do nothing.

For cultural warfare I'm not sure there would be any until cities starting touching. In that case (since culture can't spread naturally) you'd have to be at war to send a constructor to an enemy tile adjacent to your land and then work it into your borders.
Click to expand...

1) It can be done.
3) If you are willing to use action buttons you are home free.
 
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