Ranged units (archers) are not effective to upgrade

[Post Monkeh]

This entire argument would be a non-existent if the OP had first played the game and seen how the ranged promotions work on a rifleman.

I've promoted an archery unit to accuracy III and logistics and upgraded it to a rifleman. The promotions still applied in open ground but I was never in a situation where I could test if it could attack twice. Also after I earned enough XP for another promotion, I was able to get Shock I, meaning if I got enough XP I could eventually get Accuracy III and Shock III on 1 unit. It appears that the strongest possible open or rough terrain infantry units would come from an archer therefore making it worthwhile to upgrade them.

as i said above, while the promotions show up under your combat strength, if you actually do the math, they aren't applied to your total combat strength so they're pretty much useless

 

[eric_]

It's particularly stupid that bows are ranged weapons but rifles are not. The obvious upgrade problems are a result of this.

The functions of archers and rifles in battle are completely different. Troops armed with rifles (auto or otherwise) are front line troops. Archers never were. It's not at all the same kind of "ranged." Unless we're talking sniper rifle. Would be cool if there were a sniper promotion (should be high level) for rifles/infantry that allowed them to attack from two tiles away if they're on a hill or garrisoned in a city. Any highly-promoted archers (say, 3+ promos?) upgraded to rifle or infantry would have this promotion (for muskets, any ranged ability would be ridiculous, but I don't think archers upgrade to muskets, do they?).

 

[Post Monkeh]

archers upgrade to cross bow upgrade to rifle.

i think the main problem is the anomaly that a bowman can shoot a rifleman or a tank from 2 tiles away (across a body of water for instance) and face no counter attack.
modern units should be able to shoot two tiles provided there is either a flat tile in between, or they or their target is positioned on a hill

 

[eric_]

But they still cannot shoot over the heads of say, a friendly squad from another civ and hit the enemy on the other side.

This is the crux of the anomaly in the original argument. Sure, it would do some damage if you fired in an arc into enemy ranks, but it would be a dramatically inefficient way to use a rifle.

After reading further, though, I think a mortar promotion (or unit?) makes more sense than a sniper. Mortar fire is probably the closest analogue in modern warfare for archer fire.

 

[shadin]

Would be cool to have a ranged rifle unit, ie Sniper to solve the problem.

yea need a sniper line of units

 

[vincentz]

The OP give me another symptom whats wrong with Civ5. The major problem, IMO, is that they didnt really fix what was wrong with civ4. As Firaxis' producer explains here is that the team is more or less the same. Which means no thinking outside the box. They just build on top of their old mistakes. F.ex. it was either SOD or 1UPT. Both are actully natural born AI problems, especially the later is extremely easy to outsmart.
But then again, as Firaxis producer admits, civ 5 wasnt made for civ 4 fans. It was made for consol kidz.

 

[joyous_gard]

I thought of a sniper too, like someone else. It's not a perfect fit, but it keeps ranged troops in the game. Maybe just let them kill persons only (no artillery or cities), and they can't complete destroy a unit.

 

[THE_COW_IS_OK]

HA!

I really think Archers are the best units for upgrades!!!! They excell at defense early in the game (very important when playing diety getting DOWed @turn 40!) And the best is :
Do you guys know that terrain promotions stack?
Get 3 terrain promotions when ranged.(eg rough terrain prmotion +65%) then upgrade to rifle and you ll get additional promotions options for same terrain type! so You can end up with Drill Rifles with +130% rough terrain bonus! Now play china and you get the blitz for free!

Archer -> Choku -> Rifle is one of my favorite strategy in diety!