Rate and strategize the Scenarios!
- Thread starter dgfred
- Start date
. Let the
thetrooper
Misanthrope
- Joined
- May 24, 2004
- Messages
- 9,098
My rating:
1. Rise of Rome
2. Middle Ages
3. Fall of Rome
4. Age of Discovery
5. Mesopotamia
Napoleonic Europe, WW2 in the pacific, Sengoku and Mesoamerica not finished (various reasons).
Rise of Rome is awesome! Mesoamerica is bad. Fall of Rome is prolly the most fun (IMO).
I'll post strategies later (as you know
).
1. Rise of Rome
2. Middle Ages
3. Fall of Rome
4. Age of Discovery
5. Mesopotamia
Napoleonic Europe, WW2 in the pacific, Sengoku and Mesoamerica not finished (various reasons).
Rise of Rome is awesome! Mesoamerica is bad. Fall of Rome is prolly the most fun (IMO).
I'll post strategies later (as you know
).
I like ROR as Carthage, Napoleon as Britain or Prussia so far, and France in
AOD. I love the Viking civs in MA although their power makes things 'out of
whack' as far as battle vs AIs. In WWII I like playing as the Japanese, but it
is too easy overall, and if you play as one of the others the AI does a terrible
job of managing Japan
. More later.
AOD. I love the Viking civs in MA although their power makes things 'out of
whack' as far as battle vs AIs. In WWII I like playing as the Japanese, but it
is too easy overall, and if you play as one of the others the AI does a terrible
job of managing Japan
. More later.
Doc Tsiolkovski
Deity
My take:
1) Middle Ages. Strategies: Too many to list; insane replayability, phantastic balance; by far the best Conquest for me.
2) Napoloenic. Again, the nice part are the different approaches for the different Civs (see the RBCiv SG thread). Had by far the most fun with Sweden here. This Conquest really managed to convince me the more Civs I played; didn't like it that much the first time.
3) FoR. Fun, fun, fun. Only drawback is that there are essentially only three different Civs: Sassanids, Celts, anyone else. Strategy? Build up. Get the Scrouge. Get some Warlords,
. And, Gobi Bear also supplied us with the Rome version of this...a real challenge. Among the best scenarios I ever played; I really learned a lot here: How to deal with nearly no military, maximum WW, no income. A bit too hard to be fun, though; more for the masochists...but victory is even sweater .
4) Mesopotamia. Really interesting on Emperor+, when you don't automatically win by Wonders. Nice builder's game on the lower to mid levels, nicely balanced tech tree. And, you can play it in one single session.
5) WW2. China is great, the others are a bit easy, when you know the incompetences of the AI in modern warfare.
6) AoD. Nice concept, but too easy (unless you play the Iros). Strategies? For the Euros: Get some cities around the important resources (e.g. the Gold in Africa is enough, or the Carribean islands). Place several cities around those, have enough cheap units to pick up the treasures. Natives: Slaves, obviously.
7) RoR. A bit too tedious for my taste. Nice tech tree, nice balance, nice Civ flavor. However, the step from being the strongest Civ to eventually reach Domination is a bit too much for my taste. Strategies: Repeatedly reported, nothing to add.
-----
big distance
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8) Mesoamerica. Great flavor tree, nice concepts, completely broken balance: Either insanely easy, or insanely difficult; either you grab some wonders and win on autopilot, or the AI comes knocking with Silent Hunters,
9) Sengoku. Unplayable; two of the units are simply broken (Yamabuchis and Ninjas). Pointless above Monarch, the AI will completely kill themselves by pillaging; the AI simply isn't programmed to deal with move 2 ATAR pillagers. The great historical accuracy cannot save this Conquest.
1) Middle Ages. Strategies: Too many to list; insane replayability, phantastic balance; by far the best Conquest for me.
2) Napoloenic. Again, the nice part are the different approaches for the different Civs (see the RBCiv SG thread). Had by far the most fun with Sweden here. This Conquest really managed to convince me the more Civs I played; didn't like it that much the first time.
3) FoR. Fun, fun, fun. Only drawback is that there are essentially only three different Civs: Sassanids, Celts, anyone else. Strategy? Build up. Get the Scrouge. Get some Warlords,
. And, Gobi Bear also supplied us with the Rome version of this...a real challenge. Among the best scenarios I ever played; I really learned a lot here: How to deal with nearly no military, maximum WW, no income. A bit too hard to be fun, though; more for the masochists...but victory is even sweater .4) Mesopotamia. Really interesting on Emperor+, when you don't automatically win by Wonders. Nice builder's game on the lower to mid levels, nicely balanced tech tree. And, you can play it in one single session.
5) WW2. China is great, the others are a bit easy, when you know the incompetences of the AI in modern warfare.
6) AoD. Nice concept, but too easy (unless you play the Iros). Strategies? For the Euros: Get some cities around the important resources (e.g. the Gold in Africa is enough, or the Carribean islands). Place several cities around those, have enough cheap units to pick up the treasures. Natives: Slaves, obviously.
7) RoR. A bit too tedious for my taste. Nice tech tree, nice balance, nice Civ flavor. However, the step from being the strongest Civ to eventually reach Domination is a bit too much for my taste. Strategies: Repeatedly reported, nothing to add.
-----
big distance
-----
8) Mesoamerica. Great flavor tree, nice concepts, completely broken balance: Either insanely easy, or insanely difficult; either you grab some wonders and win on autopilot, or the AI comes knocking with Silent Hunters,
9) Sengoku. Unplayable; two of the units are simply broken (Yamabuchis and Ninjas). Pointless above Monarch, the AI will completely kill themselves by pillaging; the AI simply isn't programmed to deal with move 2 ATAR pillagers. The great historical accuracy cannot save this Conquest.
Grohan
Bug-hunter
1. Middle Ages. Good replayability, balance, theme and so on.
Simply the best!
2. Rise of Rome. Again great scenario though replayability isn't as good as with MA because you aren't able to play with all civs.
Still good scenario.
3. Napoleon. Good scenario though some civs have bad unique units.
4. WW2, AoD and Mesopotamia are all good scenarios though they contain some flaws.
I don't know which of these is best
7.Mesoamerica. This scenario has great potential but bad balance ruins it. Otherwise I would rate it MUCH higher.
8. Sengoku and FoR. Don't know which of these is worse. Never liked them though I never really played them.
Simply the best!
2. Rise of Rome. Again great scenario though replayability isn't as good as with MA because you aren't able to play with all civs.
Still good scenario.
3. Napoleon. Good scenario though some civs have bad unique units.
4. WW2, AoD and Mesopotamia are all good scenarios though they contain some flaws.
I don't know which of these is best
7.Mesoamerica. This scenario has great potential but bad balance ruins it. Otherwise I would rate it MUCH higher.
8. Sengoku and FoR. Don't know which of these is worse. Never liked them though I never really played them.
punkbass2000
Des An artiste
If anyone wanted to post MP opinions, that would be good too.
RoR I'm about 50 turns into a PBEM with AP and it is quite good and balanced. Everyone still has a very good shot at winning and I suspect it will mostly end up coming down to diplomacy in the end.
I'm about 20 into Mesopotamia (also with AP) and it seems fairly balanced and fun so far.
AoD I'm playing a variant so I can't really comment.
WWII is only about 10 turns in and we (the Allies) have lost already. I think AP gives a huge advantage to Japan in this one. Ships don't move any faster for the US and Commonwealth, so Japan was able to afford to nearly empty its core cities to invade me and China. I could have played better too (I'm not too good with warfare in general, especially modern), and we seemed to be up against an experienced Japanese player, so maybe I'm just finding excuses.
My Napoleon game died before turn 5, but it looks like it would work really well in MP.
Haven't done any of the others, though I am in Sengoku-mod random map game. I'm pretty much out, as I lost my capital to an opponent's Daimyo on like turn 5, but because of the Regicide I can still wander around with my two warriors and Daimyo. I'm hoping to surround the Daimyo that mercilessly razed my capital with them for an ambush, but it's probably not really going to work.
RoR I'm about 50 turns into a PBEM with AP and it is quite good and balanced. Everyone still has a very good shot at winning and I suspect it will mostly end up coming down to diplomacy in the end.
I'm about 20 into Mesopotamia (also with AP) and it seems fairly balanced and fun so far.
AoD I'm playing a variant so I can't really comment.
WWII is only about 10 turns in and we (the Allies) have lost already. I think AP gives a huge advantage to Japan in this one. Ships don't move any faster for the US and Commonwealth, so Japan was able to afford to nearly empty its core cities to invade me and China. I could have played better too (I'm not too good with warfare in general, especially modern), and we seemed to be up against an experienced Japanese player, so maybe I'm just finding excuses
.My Napoleon game died before turn 5, but it looks like it would work really well in MP.
Haven't done any of the others, though I am in Sengoku-mod random map game. I'm pretty much out, as I lost my capital to an opponent's Daimyo on like turn 5, but because of the Regicide I can still wander around with my two warriors and Daimyo. I'm hoping to surround the Daimyo that mercilessly razed my capital with them for an ambush, but it's probably not really going to work.
The Last Conformist
Irresistibly Attractive
The SH makes me wonder whether they ever playtested this into the 3rd Era.Doc Tsiolkovski said:
I was kind of proud, tho, when I (Aztecs) in my first session of the Conquest managed to repell the Mayans' SH SoD, get SHs of my own, and, in the final turns of the game, conquer the Mayans' southern highlands.
1. Middle Ages. I don't know how many times I've played this, but it's different each time. No single strategy here because each civ is different.
2. Rise of Rome. Can be a little tough to get Domination depending on the civ and difficulty, but lots of fun. Kill the weak people, I wouldn't mess with Persia (they're strong) if I'm Rome.
3. Napoleonic Europe. It's a ton of fun as small civs, I don't think it's quite as fun to play as France or Britain, though (almost seems too strong to be fun.) Get cash and rush units (this is as a small civ), then kill.
4. WWII Pacific. Fun. Depends on the civ.
5. Sengoku. It would be much higher on the list if the Yamabushis and Ninjas were fixed, because other than that I like it. Conquer people or get Domination.
6. Mesopotamia. Somewhat fun, but too much emphasis on the wonders IMO. Do anything to get wonders.
7. Fall of Rome. Not imbalanced, but I found it boring. Build Warlords and kill.
8. Age of Discovery. I didn't find it interesting as Europe, Mesoamerica is okay but not the greatest. As Mesoamerica, just build culture and stay alive.
9. Mesoamerica. Imbalanced (Silent Hunters) and I didn't find it fun in the first place. No strategy needed.
2. Rise of Rome. Can be a little tough to get Domination depending on the civ and difficulty, but lots of fun. Kill the weak people, I wouldn't mess with Persia (they're strong) if I'm Rome.
3. Napoleonic Europe. It's a ton of fun as small civs, I don't think it's quite as fun to play as France or Britain, though (almost seems too strong to be fun.) Get cash and rush units (this is as a small civ), then kill.
4. WWII Pacific. Fun. Depends on the civ.
5. Sengoku. It would be much higher on the list if the Yamabushis and Ninjas were fixed, because other than that I like it. Conquer people or get Domination.
6. Mesopotamia. Somewhat fun, but too much emphasis on the wonders IMO. Do anything to get wonders.
7. Fall of Rome. Not imbalanced, but I found it boring. Build Warlords and kill.
8. Age of Discovery. I didn't find it interesting as Europe, Mesoamerica is okay but not the greatest. As Mesoamerica, just build culture and stay alive.
9. Mesoamerica. Imbalanced (Silent Hunters) and I didn't find it fun in the first place. No strategy needed.
Cuivienen
Deity
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2003
- Messages
- 8,011
1. Middle Ages. Varied, fun, long tech tree, many different opportunities. Great scenario.
2. Rise of Rome. Macedonia and Carthage are a bit on the weak side, but the scenario is mostly well balanced and has very good gameplay. Go for Heavy Cavalry and kill.
3. Sengoku. I've never experienced the Yamabushi pillaging that other describe and like this scenario very much, mostly because it's a full-length game.
4. Napoleon. Rise of Rome with a shorter tech tree and Industrial-era units. Not much more to say.
5. Mesopotamia. Rather boring, just build wonders and win. The AI is terrible at exploring.
6. WW2 Pacific Theater. The AI can't handle air- and sea-based warfare.
7. Mesoamerica. It's just too easy as the Inca and too hard as the others; Silent Hunters are deadly.
8. Age of Discovery. The AI is terrible at acquiring treasure and bringing it home.
9. Fall of Rome. Build Warlords, kill. No strategy involved at all. Boring as hell.
2. Rise of Rome. Macedonia and Carthage are a bit on the weak side, but the scenario is mostly well balanced and has very good gameplay. Go for Heavy Cavalry and kill.
3. Sengoku. I've never experienced the Yamabushi pillaging that other describe and like this scenario very much, mostly because it's a full-length game.
4. Napoleon. Rise of Rome with a shorter tech tree and Industrial-era units. Not much more to say.
5. Mesopotamia. Rather boring, just build wonders and win. The AI is terrible at exploring.
6. WW2 Pacific Theater. The AI can't handle air- and sea-based warfare.
7. Mesoamerica. It's just too easy as the Inca and too hard as the others; Silent Hunters are deadly.
8. Age of Discovery. The AI is terrible at acquiring treasure and bringing it home.
9. Fall of Rome. Build Warlords, kill. No strategy involved at all. Boring as hell.
Pounder
Phaethon was here
1) Middle Ages by far the Best.
Played it so many times, it is the only Sid Level victory I have every had in Civ 3. Actually the playing it so many times that its like cheating because tune your strategies.
2) Mesopotamia
3) Mesoamerica
4) Nepolean
5) AoD
6) RoR
7) WWII
8) FoR
9) Japan
Played it so many times, it is the only Sid Level victory I have every had in Civ 3. Actually the playing it so many times that its like cheating because tune your strategies.
2) Mesopotamia
3) Mesoamerica
4) Nepolean
5) AoD
6) RoR
7) WWII
8) FoR
9) Japan
The four that I tend to like the best:
Napoleonic Europe - I've played it too much and now it tends to be repeatative but its quite a fun reasonably balanced scenario
Middle Ages - Just playing for the first time and its been an interesting game so far although I don't particularily like the idea of buiding a huge SoD and moving it to Jerusalem.
WW2 Pacific - Is a nice playable scenario where there is a reasonable amount of variation
The others:
Mesoamerica - Largely turned into a game of constantly producing the UU until the Mayans were destroyed. Not much fun.
Mesopotamia - Played it once and won by building all the wonders and haven't bothered to go back since
Japan - Reached a winning position but the prospect of taking down one small nation after another didn't appeal when I had secured the north. So essentially it doesn't appeal to me since in the end it turns into an epic game.
Fall of Rome - Played it once. Seemed quite good but I've never bothered to actually finish it completely
Age of Discovery - Was fun playing it and going for a cultural win but seemed a bit too easy.
Rise of Rome - Very nice balance between the civs leads to some entertaining early games although once one empire falls the victor tends to be in a position to wipe out the others.
Napoleonic Europe - I've played it too much and now it tends to be repeatative but its quite a fun reasonably balanced scenario
Middle Ages - Just playing for the first time and its been an interesting game so far although I don't particularily like the idea of buiding a huge SoD and moving it to Jerusalem.
WW2 Pacific - Is a nice playable scenario where there is a reasonable amount of variation
The others:
Mesoamerica - Largely turned into a game of constantly producing the UU until the Mayans were destroyed. Not much fun.
Mesopotamia - Played it once and won by building all the wonders and haven't bothered to go back since
Japan - Reached a winning position but the prospect of taking down one small nation after another didn't appeal when I had secured the north. So essentially it doesn't appeal to me since in the end it turns into an epic game.
Fall of Rome - Played it once. Seemed quite good but I've never bothered to actually finish it completely
Age of Discovery - Was fun playing it and going for a cultural win but seemed a bit too easy.
Rise of Rome - Very nice balance between the civs leads to some entertaining early games although once one empire falls the victor tends to be in a position to wipe out the others.
Although I like MA very much, the AI 
of settler diahrea and other
civs with relics loading them and then roaming the map= just
.
I enjoy playing as Germany and France- the Viking civs are just too easy
vs AIs.
WWII
In my recent game as Japan (Diety) I got a ML on the 1st turn with my Yam.
marines, I quickly formed a Marine Army and captured the Chinese city on the
coast that is almost unattackable on T1.
-- things ended pretty quickly
in this game. My next game as China, I slaughtered BOTH of Japan's Armys
by turn 5 and then quit, I felt that Japan would not recover
.
Right now I am having the most fun with Napoleon, but both France and
England are a little easy. I am currently playing as Prussia and will post
results later.
of settler diahrea and othercivs with relics loading them and then roaming the map= just
.I enjoy playing as Germany and France- the Viking civs are just too easy
vs AIs.
WWII
In my recent game as Japan (Diety) I got a ML on the 1st turn with my Yam.
marines, I quickly formed a Marine Army and captured the Chinese city on the
coast that is almost unattackable on T1.
-- things ended pretty quicklyin this game. My next game as China, I slaughtered BOTH of Japan's Armys
by turn 5 and then quit, I felt that Japan would not recover
.Right now I am having the most fun with Napoleon, but both France and
England are a little easy. I am currently playing as Prussia and will post
results later.
I'll take simple criterion when rating this scenarios. How many times I played any untill now:
MA and AoD are by far best and most enjoyable for me!
Both Rome Scenarios and WWII didn't like it (just played once each) wich does not mean they are bad, it's not my taste or interest so...
The rest are in the middle, but "Napoleon" and "Mesoamerica" (but you can play it thrue AoD so it's doubled in a way...) are "faight" for third place on my list!
MA and AoD are by far best and most enjoyable for me!
Both Rome Scenarios and WWII didn't like it (just played once each) wich does not mean they are bad, it's not my taste or interest so...
The rest are in the middle, but "Napoleon" and "Mesoamerica" (but you can play it thrue AoD so it's doubled in a way...) are "faight" for third place on my list!
Smartsquid399
Warlord
I'v only played ROR, WWII and Sengoku, and my favorite is either WWII in the Pacific or Rise of Rome. I don't really like Sengoku.
I'm playing Napoleon now as Prussia (monarch) and doing pretty good .
It is T28 and I am points leader after Dutch and a couple of phoney
wars with Ottomans and Spain . I will have to 
Russia and
France shortly
, because both are growing and getting stronger quickly.
I am also going to give FOR another try tonight as the Huns or Anglo-Saxons.
.It is T28 and I am points leader after
Dutch and a couple of phoneywars with Ottomans and Spain
. I will have to Russia andFrance shortly
, because both are growing and getting stronger quickly.I am also going to give FOR another try tonight as the Huns or Anglo-Saxons.
LionQ
Noble
The Middle Ages are - imo - by far the best Conquest. This scenario is so huge - regarding the number of Civilizations in it - that you can play it endlessly.
I only played it once, as Cordova. I crushed the Castilians and got the most Victory Points. But I'm sure I will play it again, and again, and again. I'd like to conduct a Crusade from Europe to Jerusalem, but it'll be also cool to rush your Longship over the European seas and strike fear on every beach.
Futhermore, it'll be great to play as the Byzantines.
Conclusion: this scenario has so many possibilities for playing and ending, that it's my number 1.
I only played it once, as Cordova. I crushed the Castilians and got the most Victory Points. But I'm sure I will play it again, and again, and again. I'd like to conduct a Crusade from Europe to Jerusalem, but it'll be also cool to rush your Longship over the European seas and strike fear on every beach.
Futhermore, it'll be great to play as the Byzantines.Conclusion: this scenario has so many possibilities for playing and ending, that it's my number 1.
LLXerxes
Space Travel is Boring
- Joined
- Mar 16, 2004
- Messages
- 5,079
My favorites, in a list (1 the greatest)
Strategies:
- Rise of Rome
- Napoleonic Europe
- The Middle Ages
- Sengoku
- Mesoamerica
- WWII Battle for the Pacific
- Age of Discovery
- Mesopotamia
- Fall of Rome
Strategies:
- Rise of Rome- Play as Rome. Expand into Europe adn France, while setting your tech tree to jump straight to Legionarie III's and Heavy cavalry. THen, you First Attack Sicily, then Carthaginian holidings in Spain. Then ally with everybody to destroy Carthage.
Then, attack Africa from the Straight of Gibralter (Tingis). After capturing a couple of cities, start from teh SE area, and sweep up to Carthage.
Then, attack the Gauls.It won't be that hard. Just make sure all your neighboring settlements are secure.
After that, go for the Goths, then Egypt.
Then, aid Persia in they're struggle vs. Macedon, and take all the Macedonian cities with Wonders in them. - Napoleonic Europe-Play as France. First, eliminate the Weak Dutch. THen, charge into Naples with grand batteries, and voltiguers. Upgrade to Imperial Guards and Imperial cavalry ASAP!
Then head through Spain. You can fight them if you want. If you do, fight them first, and wait to kill off Portagul. WHen your done with spain invade Portagul, and the City of Gibralter.
Then take all but 1 of your armies into England. Take the mainland first, and leave Ireland to suffer.
WHile your doing that kill Prussia. - The Middle Ages-Play as teh Byzyntines. I'm too lazy to write a strategy.
- Sengoku-Play as Oda. Expand quickly and find some Iron. After that, I'm too lazy to write a strategy.
- Mesoamerica-Play as Inca. Eliminate Moche early, and expand and take all of South America. After that. I'm too lazy to write a strategy.
- WWII Battle for the Pacific-I dunno. I'm too lazy to write a strategy.
- Age of Discovery-Play as Portagul or Spain. If Spain, kill off portagul REALLY early and take the wonder. THen expand into the America
- Mesopotamia- Um, I dunno. Play as Mycanae... I'm too lazy to write a strategy.
- Fall of Rome- I dunno that much. I played as the Huns or Anglo Saxons. I'm too lazy to write a strategy.
Doc Tsiolkovski
Deity
dgfred asked me per pm:
1) Middle Ages
Easy - nothing special. There simply is nothing to get here. Key is to contact as many Civs as possible ASAP, to lower Tech costs significantly. And, the key Tech is Map Making; explore like mad, if you are among the first with MM, you can get like all available gp, most Techs and even Luxuries for your WM. Start by buying the TMs of the smaller Civs like Celts, and sell your near complete map to the big guys like Turks, Byzantium and at foremost Abbassids.
2) Napoleonic
As most players know, you can reach domination with France and England in turn 1; to avoid that exploit, simply do not take any cities. Since those two Civs are stronger by a wide margin, MAs/MPPs for free are realistic.
For any other Civ, nothing special. But by all means, make sure a locked enemy cannot buy your neighbor against you - buy MAs yourself. One point about trades: Several Civs (even France!) have unconnected Luxuries; make sure to sell your Furs to Napoleon in the first turn.
3) RoR
Problematic. No problem with Carthage and Makedons, but Rome and even Persia get much more than they should; however, it is much harder to tell what would be realistic...
I can only advise to take nothing but straight MAs, maybe some small change. But this Conquest is usually way prefered by mid-experienced players, who may even prefer to use the exploit.
Still, I cannot really understand why this Conquest is the winner in the 'Ratings'. Sengoku, I see; I think it's safe to say mostly Newbies like it (and the few others like it because of the theme but know about the problems).
4) FoR
Here, the power calculation bug strikes only when you play the 'Everlasting Rome' scenario. But, the Barbarians don't have anything to offer, and the fact WRome can get everything from ERome here on turn 1 is IMHO what it should be - they are your locked Ally after all. Would be much more realistic when in such a case you would get a discount (for WW2 for example).
1) Middle Ages
Easy - nothing special. There simply is nothing to get here. Key is to contact as many Civs as possible ASAP, to lower Tech costs significantly. And, the key Tech is Map Making; explore like mad, if you are among the first with MM, you can get like all available gp, most Techs and even Luxuries for your WM. Start by buying the TMs of the smaller Civs like Celts, and sell your near complete map to the big guys like Turks, Byzantium and at foremost Abbassids.
2) Napoleonic
As most players know, you can reach domination with France and England in turn 1; to avoid that exploit, simply do not take any cities. Since those two Civs are stronger by a wide margin, MAs/MPPs for free are realistic.
For any other Civ, nothing special. But by all means, make sure a locked enemy cannot buy your neighbor against you - buy MAs yourself. One point about trades: Several Civs (even France!) have unconnected Luxuries; make sure to sell your Furs to Napoleon in the first turn
.3) RoR
Problematic. No problem with Carthage and Makedons, but Rome and even Persia get much more than they should; however, it is much harder to tell what would be realistic...
I can only advise to take nothing but straight MAs, maybe some small change. But this Conquest is usually way prefered by mid-experienced players, who may even prefer to use the exploit
.Still, I cannot really understand why this Conquest is the winner in the 'Ratings'. Sengoku, I see; I think it's safe to say mostly Newbies like it (and the few others like it because of the theme but know about the problems).
4) FoR
Here, the power calculation bug strikes only when you play the 'Everlasting Rome' scenario. But, the Barbarians don't have anything to offer, and the fact WRome can get everything from ERome here on turn 1 is IMHO what it should be - they are your locked Ally after all. Would be much more realistic when in such a case you would get a discount (for WW2 for example).
I appreciate your swift reply. 
