Rate the Expansionist trait. Do you love it or hate it, take it or leave it?

[Dr Elmer Jiggle]

Originally posted by Qitai
Contact is valuable not in the sense of selling contact. It is valuable because buying/selling/researching Tech cost is HIGHLY DEPENDANT on contact.

That's a good point I hadn't thought of. Maybe that's why even though I don't like the trait much, I seem to do well when I play expansionist civilizations.

Even so, I think that's an argument for why expansionist doesn't suck, but it's not an argument for why expansionist is better in C3C than it used to be. That particular benefit of having contacts is the same now as it was before. If I get cheaper techs in C3C by knowing 8 other civilizations, I would get the same cheap techs in PTW. So I'm sticking to my claim that expansionist is worse or at least no better than before.

And I also still dislike the fact that it's the only trait that can be made completely useless by the map settings. Unfortunately I'm not sure how to fix that. In the past I've suggested half-price granaries, but I've heard that was tried for agricultural and was thrown out as being too imbalanced. But I wonder was it imbalanced all by itself or was it only imbalanced in combination with the bonus food, cheaper aqueducts, and other agricultural benefits? In other words, would it perhaps be less imbalanced in the hands of expansionists?

Originally posted by Veteranewbie

Also, your scout may get KIA early in the game

You can (and should) make more scouts. You aren't limited to the one you start with.

 

[Veteranewbie]

Yeah, but then with 10 shield, u can build a warrior instead and get upgrade to swordman, medieval infantry, guerilla later.
Also is that non-expansionist trait doesn't mean that they are not going to pop a tech, but if u pop some barbs, ur warrior may get upgrade (which is quite good since most early unit are regular).
And again, what happen if the map is set to no barbarian? It will happen that expansionist trait will lose more than half of its usefulness.

 

[Qitai]

Originally posted by Dr Elmer Jiggle
Even so, I think that's an argument for why expansionist doesn't suck, but it's not an argument for why expansionist is better in C3C than it used to be. That particular benefit of having contacts is the same now as it was before. If I get cheaper techs in C3C by knowing 8 other civilizations, I would get the same cheap techs in PTW. So I'm sticking to my claim that expansionist is worse or at least no better than before.

Well, in Civ3/PTW and playing Deity, I can buy the rest of the contacts once writing is researched. This means the contact benefit part is only up until writing is researched. Thus, I do not need to explore to the other end of the continent. Now it can last longer and I actually need to get some unit to the other end of the continent, so in that sense it is improved. As for whether it is actually weaken or improved, I think it is really a mixed and also really depends on what level you are playing as well as the kind of map you are playing. I do tend to think it is weaken too.

 

[SelfishGene]

Expansionist changes (use whichever you want alone or in combination):

Unique settler speed 2.

Improved scout line. Has upgrade for each age. Becomes a combat unit in medieval.

1/2 price Town Halls. And maybe some other corruption reduction effects.

100 free supermega-nukes and 1,000,000 gold at start of each game. Scout's new stats are 50.50.50 w/blitz.

 

[Turner]

Well, my current game it got me a commanding tech lead, plus a settler early. Which is part of the reason I'm number one right now.

Useful at times, but not always the way I want to play.

 

[meltone1]

Originally posted by SelfishGene
Expansionist changes (use whichever you want alone or in combination):

Unique settler speed 2.

Improved scout line. Has upgrade for each age. Becomes a combat unit in medieval.

1/2 price Town Halls. And maybe some other corruption reduction effects.

100 free supermega-nukes and 1,000,000 gold at start of each game. Scout's new stats are 50.50.50 w/blitz.

that first idea's not so bad..could be real good with zulu's UU. I'm not too sure about the last, though..

edit: another interesting thing to try is making the workers have 2 movement points too..

 

[Dr Elmer Jiggle]

Originally posted by meltone1
another interesting thing to try is making the workers have 2 movement points too..

I'm not sure if that would work well. Why would you ever build scouts then? I guess it would save you a population point, which would be nice in some circumstances, but basically you'd be turning a scout into a lazy worker.

 

[Almightyjosh]

You only get two civ traits, so why would you pick one that fizzes after the very start of the game? All the other traits have propeties that are usefull right til the end of the game! Most of them can also help you get an early lead if you use them properly. In my opinion expantionism sucks, and really needs something else that carries through most of the game to make it worthwhile.

 

[Cedrick]

I agree. Once you leave the first age, your scouts just become mobile watchers on your borders. The goodie huts are gone, except maybe on an isolated island or something.
Expantionist needs some bonus like seafaring has to keep it valuable throughout the game.

 

[Gainy]

Expansionist is the best trait in C3C. No question. Contacts, seeing the surrounding terrain, and popping the huts carefreely is fantastic - especially on a pangaea map.

 

[downwithgravity]

expansionist is a trait that rewards higher-level players more than lower-level ones. if you use it right, it can be awesome, but if you don't, then it is useless. this is different from traits like industrious or commercial, where the benefits can clearly be seen during the whole game. expansionist, instead of having a passive bonus, sets you up to command the rest of the game, which is infinitely more powerful, especially on high difficulty levels.

 

[qanda]

Expansionist is one of my favourite traits. Here's why:

1) The scouts you get on the first turn are very useful for getting goody huts. When playing an expansionist civ, I usually get 2 settlers, 2+ warriors and at the very minimum 4 free techs. When I'm playing non-expasionist civs, that number is cut by half.

2) Scouts are also good at finding new places to site your city. I usually like to site my cities at coastal areas or beside rivers, but that's harder to accomplish if you use settlers/spearmen/warriors/archers to scout. With scouts, your scouting rate is doubled.

3) Barbarians are friendlier (less danger for your scouts), and goody huts tend to give more good things (similar to point one).

4) When you can trade maps, your map will be worth a whole chunk. Also, since communications and map trading come so late, you get a better diplomatic and geographical advantage if you are expansionist.

 

[Goober]

Ok, so with 0 military units, and exploring with workers or whatever, you cannot get Barbarians from the Huts? Or do you need the Expansionist trait for this? I tried expoloring with Workers, has 1 warrior, and I kept on getting Barbarians. I think I see the light now . . .

 

[Turner]

No, the expansionist civs don't pop barbs. Period. You either get techs, warriors, gold, maps, or cities.

Now, from what I understand if you're not expansionist, and you don't have any military units, then you can't pop barbs from huts. But it might be no military units in the world, not just your civ.

 

[qanda]

Originally posted by RealGoober
Ok, so with 0 military units, and exploring with workers or whatever, you cannot get Barbarians from the Huts? Or do you need the Expansionist trait for this? I tried expoloring with Workers, has 1 warrior, and I kept on getting Barbarians. I think I see the light now . . .

OK, I'm not sure what you're asking, but all I know is that with non-expansionist civs, you will often disturb barbarians in goody huts. With expansionist civs, you are almost guaranteed not to disturb any barbarians, and will always get something good out of goody huts.

Getting 2-3 warriors, 1-3 settlers and up to 7 free techs is quite a good early game advantage if you ask me. Even if it does fizz out after you reach the middle ages. Not to mention the money you can get for your world map.

 

[Qpdaj]

I'm not sure about the expansionist trait. Back in vanillia, my first wins were with expansionist civilizations, and I definitely see the benefit of them early in the game. However, in C3C, I haven't tried an expansionist civ yet. As others have said, this trait doesn't seem very useful past the early stages of the game. Of course, the early stages of the game are generally the most important...

I think for my next epic game I'll try another expansionist civ, and put into practice some of the suggestions from this thread!

 

[Park Ranger]

Originally posted by Turner_727
No, the expansionist civs don't pop barbs. Period. You either get techs, warriors, gold, maps, or cities.

Now, from what I understand if you're not expansionist, and you don't have any military units, then you can't pop barbs from huts. But it might be no military units in the world, not just your civ.

I'm 99% sure the rule only applies to the player civ, because on higher levels AI starts with mil units yet I still apply the rule (pop huts with worker before any warriors are built), and have not been let down yet. In fact, my last game I got my woker to a hut and got a settler in 3800 BC. Right beside some ivory, too.[dance]

 

[Turner]

I think the same as you, PR. I was just doing a little CYA.

 

[Gainy]

But it might be no military units in the world, not just your civ.

That isn't for popping barbs, that's for getting a "skilled" warrior from a hut. If there are no military units in the game, then you have no chance of popping one from a hut. If there are, then you do

 

[Revolutionary]

as a non-Exp. civ if I have a military unit I will ONLY get Barbarians

some people in this thread say that it's only half the time but for me its always maybe it's the difficult level I play or the DAMN! RNG