RB20 - Miller Time

[Sirian]

305AD: (Continued from Page 7) Pop our first leader and I use him to discover Philosophy:

This choice yields many benefits:

* Leader used on a pricey tech.
* Immediate access to our first Civics change (to Pacifism!)
* Pacifism will double the speed at which future leaders arrive.
* Getting us closer to Nationalism (and another big Civic for us).
* Role-play value for our variant. (Hey man, we don't want no fighting in this bar, OK? Now who's paying for the next round?!?)
* We have, for sure, a very big fish to trade around for other expensive prizes, possibly netting us an n-fer, in effect.
* Founded Taoism in New York, one more religion for us, one less civ who will hate us because they have their own religion:

I make the immediate civics swap, of course:

This IS going to cost us in upkeep, but what the hey. Pennies now, but another Great Leader in half the time, and one more after that. Leaders are worth not only big buckaroos, but also the chance to slingshot to other benefits, if used wisely. (I definitely think we should be considering using most of them for Lightbulbing, since we have a much more urgent need to GET TO critical techs for us than we do to be worrying about what kind of goodies they are paying back to us in 2000AD.)


335AD: Chicago founded:

One turn of delay as the settler had to work his way around incoming hostiles. One of our roads got pillaged (one I built on my turn). Also, things are a bit warm in the Chicago vicinity. I believe I have it in hand, but a bad dice roll could leave us exposed to any followup attacks by units not yet visible.

Oh, and you can see I chose Metal Casting as next tech. Three reasons:
1. Forges sooner rather than later would be good for our production.
2. It's on the way to Machinery (and, for instance, might allow us to Lightbulb Machinery with the next leader?)
3. We can't afford the time investment at the moment to go for Feudalism, and we can't afford the shields to build Markets. Improving the lands around our cities, via windmills, would be one of the best things going. If we were going to go for Feudalism, that should have been in lieu of Construction. Really, having Ivory on hand gives us the luxury of delaying Longbows, though this is not a permanent reprieve.


350AD: My round comes to its end with, once again, the barbarians at the gate. Thank goodness Strauss can clean up the mess. I claim Drunken Stupor for allowing this to develop:

An Axe and two Warriors incoming. One enemy Archer already destroyed (but our elite unit wounded in that fight). We have four archers in the vicinity. So here's the game plan I recommend:

1. Sit tight. Don't move anybody, just hit end turn.
2a. If the Axe attacks the city and loses, the danger is over.
2b. If the Axe attacks the archer on the hill and loses, you may need to move the wounded archer into the city to heal.
2c. If the Axe attacks the city and WINS, you MUST move the Archer from the hill into the city (and start praying).
2d. If the Axe attacks the hill and wins, all you can do is sit tight unless he's totally redlined (in which case you MIGHT risk attacking him.)
3. The fourth archer, coming up from behind, can reinforce just in case the Axe wins twice against the poor city.
4. If the Axe single-handedly kills all four Archers, we will have to blame it on Drunken Stupor or something, and everybody gets totally sauced and tries to make amends to the PRNG Gods Who Have Forsaken Us.

 

[Sirian]

Atlanta is totally secure for the moment, even though there are more incoming:

New York has a troublemaker:

Probably should move the forward archer to block his path?
If he gets in to the hinterland and starts pillaging, we will suffer heavily.

Our eastern explorer revealed exactly one more plot before getting squashed.
I didn't mention it earlier because, well, maybe because I wanted to forget!

I never would have believed that our last surviving scout would be the unpromoted one in the west:

Here's to the Unlikely Hero.


A panoramic look around our world:

 

[Sirian]

Now for the DotMap(TM)-ing.

I already mentioned that New Pink Dot(TM) should be our next/seventh city.

I will stand by that claim.


Our eighth city needs to be planted in the north, where there are FOUR Calendar resource types waiting for us.

My first thought was this site:

It would have only four irredeemable jungle plots, marked by green squares. It gets the oasis and all four flood plains, plus the Banana and one Dyes, and could stretch to get the Sugar and Incense with enough border expansion.

The Sugar really made me think, though. So I contemplated the unthinkable, settling ON a flood plain and wasting it. Here's what that looks like:

This config has SIX irredeemable jungle plots, the five marked and the one under the barbarian unit I forgot to mark.

The small yellow dots in the two pictures show the tradeoffs. In the first pic, we gain a fourth flood plain, two forests, and the oasis, and lose two jungles. The second pic, we gain city control over the sugar, second dye, and one desert hill on the river. We also, for sure, would own the Sugar outright, instead of risking some poacher coming along and settling on top of it. Also note the White Dot. That could be a half-city site that would collect the oasis, the third dye, the rice and two incense. That would be a very small city, with only enough food to reach size 8 or 9, but it would be a good commerce site with five desert windmills, and it would control the incense and the rice, and WOULD pay for its own upkeep.

After long contemplation, I am convinced that the Green Dot is the must-go site for our eighth city, leaving room for White Dot later on.


Somebody wrote that we are running a food rich variant, but I believe the exact opposite. This is a shield-poor variant only in the early going. All those endless forests will provide tons of late game shields for us. It's a lack of commerce, and most urgently an inability to remove vegetation, that blocks our way. Can't clear irrigation paths, can't clear the HEAVY vegetation to make room for farms or mills.

Every city must be placed with FOOD foremost in mind. All those jungles we can't clear might as well be tundra. Most of our expansion must be southward if we are to control a large territory, although later on, some cities in the jungle may be necessary when Score/Time is our path to victory.

Green Dot is recommended because of both food and resources.

Other dots listed below are largely arranged according to food priorities.


Light Blue Dot is northwest of Washington. Lots of "wasted" land around, but it is far more urgent that we build for quality than quantity, especially since we may get the chance to backfill later.

This site would do well on food. Only two lakes, two windmills, but strong on farms and perhaps on specialists, which goes well with our Pacifism.


Orange Dot is west of Chigago, far from our capital, and a bold reach. Not sure if we can get there, but maybe.

Lots of Windmill space, plus a second shot at rice, cows and horses. Also remember that post-Biology we can do "dry farms" anywhere on the map, which are worth 1 food. I forgot that in my earlier analysis of the value of unirrigable clearings.


Yellow Dot is north of Chicago:

Only one Corn and two lake plots, and too many forests around, but a good choice for a backfill city (or a fallback, if we lose Orange Dot).


Finally, Red Dot is more or less a pipe dream:

The long, thick ridgeline that shields Atlanta's flanks cuts us off from a vast region to the northeast. IF we get a shot at getting up there, though, this is the first site to try to grab. Lots of "dry farms" I'm afraid, but a good looking production site.

 

[Sirian]

Here is the complete DotMap(TM):

As always, Pink Dot is the most urgent.

Green dot is crucial, as well.
If we get both Pink and Green, I predict great things for us in our future.

Orange would be the next priority, though probably we can't afford it until at least my next round if not later!
Orange would be the Wei Chi move. Yellow is OURS if we get Orange.

Dark Blue is the new color for the half-city south of Philly.
IF we get Orange, I'd settle Dark Blue before Yellow just because Yellow will be "safe", I believe.

You can see how isolated and hopeless Red is, but everything north of it is jungle-infested and worth less (if not worthless).

You can also see just how well shielded Atlanta will be once we have secured New Pink Dot!

There is also a site northwest of White Dot where we might chance a Wei Chi move if the AIs are also relatively slow to expand and the opportunity is still there way way down the line.
A big lake is up there, and one Cow and an Ivory.


Pink and Green. Pink and Green. Our new drinking song is "Pink and Green"!

It's MILLER TIME!


Let's invite over some friends and pop a keg:

Strauss is handling the arrangements.


- Sirian

 

[mike p]

Good work Sirian.

Washington, with corn and pigs, is a great city for pumping out settlers and workers. But we should keep the specialists employed. I generally like to get them out ASAP so don't tend to run specialists while building them. On the other hand, building the settler in Atlanta meant we could keep working the flood plains for commerce and not have to worry about using production oriented tiles that don't give income, and the monestary would give beakers. But your way gets things done quicker, so I'll accept the trade off. Any time anyone has suggestions to help refine my thinking, just let me know - that's the real point of these SGs, at least for me.

The chief advantage to your pink dot over my suggestion seems to be that you can pick up spots for two additional watermills and one extra grassland tile on a diagonal for an extra commerce. But it means it doesn't get the wheat. My thinking was that with the wheat and cows and a fair number of hills this would be our best choice for our chief production/heroic epic city and missing the commerce from the river wouldn't be a big concern. Especially when keeping the hill under pink dot open for a windmill and the two forests along the south edge will provide hammers to compensate for the watermills. You seem pretty sure that pink dot is the place, rather than one tile south, but why is it worth forgoing 3 extra food from the wheat? By the way, I'm in full agreement that quality should trump quantity in city placement.

Just to go further with my comment about being food rich, the map itself isn't, but right now the only improvements we can build (excepting bonus resources) are farms. With no cottages, our only sources of income will be rivers, the rare lake tiles, trade routes (let's get hooked up to Liz!), and specialists (essentially turning food to commerce or research). Until Machinery gives us more 2-1-1 or 1-2-1 tiles, we need to focus on food and specialists wherever we have libraries IMO.

I certainly do enjoy the highlands map script. It makes for some interesting decisions as far as city placement, since there are so many mountain tiles that block movement and provide no resources.

 

[Sirian]

The chief advantage to your pink dot over my suggestion seems to be that you can pick up spots for two additional watermills and one extra grassland tile on a diagonal for an extra commerce. But it means it doesn't get the wheat. My thinking was that with the wheat and cows and a fair number of hills this would be our best choice for our chief production/heroic epic city and missing the commerce from the river wouldn't be a big concern. Especially when keeping the hill under pink dot open for a windmill and the two forests along the south edge will provide hammers to compensate for the watermills. You seem pretty sure that pink dot is the place, rather than one tile south, but why is it worth forgoing 3 extra food from the wheat?

As a front line city, certain to take lots of incoming heat from barbarians, being what will be our anchor for the entire eastern flank, having the city on the hill seems the most prudent. More than half of our opponents are to our south or east, all heading for this city if they should attack.

If we can't manage to plant another city south of there before the AIs crowd up the map, then we're in trouble of a different kind.

Not that your plan isn't workable. Dotmapping is the one thing for which there are almost always many valid paths. Literally the only thing, though, that will allow us to actually farm and use that wheat tile would be having a city on the far side of it. These barbarians will not be letting up on us for another 1000 years at least, and probably longer.

I know I said that food is the only concern, but I often say inane things to emphasize a point. Exageration is in my character, as is disguising the difference between when I am and am not exagerating. I like to keep people on their toes.


- Sirian

 

[Strauss]

Got it, will play in a few hours

 

[Strauss]

Turn 1 (365 AD): Barb axeman loses in Chicago, no harm to our Archer, promote him to CG 2. Settler finished in Washington and start on Worker. Send Settler to Pink Dot.

IBT: Mansa asks to cancel deals with Alex, this is too risky.
Get OB with Genghis Khan.

Turn 3 (395 AD): Our first Jumbo is trained in New York (woohoo), start on another. The unit is sent to Pink Dot as well.

Turn 6 (440 AD): Granary finishes in Boston, start on Worker.

Turn 8 (470 AD): Jumbo finishes in Philly, start on another but I micromanage a bit to let the city grow. Seattle is founded on Pink Dot and starts on a Granary.

Turn 9 (485 AD): Frederick appears with 2 Archers and a Warrior near Chicago.

Turn 10 (500 AD): Fred moves away. Worker finishes in Washington, I now start on a Settler.

IBT 12: Get OB with Fred.

Turn 12 (530 AD): We get a little lucky: Buddhism spreads to Chicago. This means a border expansion in 8 turns (2 cpt), obtaining horses and pigs! Also near Chicago, the first barbarian Swordsman appears.

IBT 13: I refuse Genghis' demand to cancel deals with Mali.

IBT 14: Napoleon's demand is refused as well, he can't be trusted either and is weak. France and Mali are already touching borders, so these two will (eventually) go to war.

Turn 14 (560 AD): Worker completes in Boston, I start on a Buddhist Monastery. Our Jumbo fights off an Axeman and a Warrior to pop the hut near Seattle, but only gets another hostile warrior.....

Turn 15 (575 AD): Jumbo is finished in New York and it starts on a Buddhist Monastery as well. I would suggest sending the Jumbo north to Green Dot.
I've started moving the Workers near Atlanta south, I suggest moving them to Seattle to improve the cows since Atlanta is near its happiness limit, so it should be micromanaged later so that it doesn't grow beyond it. This will make Atlanta quite productive.
We have also reached 1 million Americans!

 

[Strauss]

The plan was to have 3 more Workers by the end of Tatran's round, so I went and trained 2. The third one should be trained in Boston I think. I probably should have started a Worker instead of a Monastery there... Can that be my drunken stupor? Although thanks to the Corn currently being farmed you might be able to do both in your turnset.

The Settler in Washington is of course meant for Green Dot.

Roster:

Sirian --> drew up our dotmap for the coming millennium
Strauss --> founded Seattle
Tatran --> UP! to fight off more barbs while getting the Settler to Green Dot
Iustus --> out partying with mike
mike p --> out partying with Iustus

I'm liking this map more and more. I have a soft spot for terrain 'specialties' like mountain ranges acting as barriers, and the mountain range near Atlanta definitely looks beautiful.

 

[Sirian]

That looks good.

The monastary in Boston may not be weedy, I'm thinking. We do need to get a couple of Missionaries going, and having a Monastary on each side of DC looks OK to me. Although Boston should still become our Heroic Epic site once we get to Lit, I think, and then transfer heavy unit duty to it while Philly catches up on infra.

At least that is my impression of the moment. I'm glad the Jumbos allowed you to push for our expansion goals essentially without pause. Since we'll soon have eight cities, we need to increase our worker goal to NINE total workers, which would be three more than the original goal. If we can get four more workers before the game gets back to me, that should be good enough. (Washington and NYC will need a granary at some point, too.)

We don't have any theaters yet, I think, but I'd like to see them started right after the granaries in our newer cities. I'm hoping Calendar is one of the techs we eventually get in trade. We can hold off on it a little bit, since Green Dot will have three Flood Plains to work, and we will need a stronger than average military presence up there since the city will be exposed on all flanks, so Calendar can wait for now. Machinery seems like a good goal for us, with Monarchy perhaps being another tech we can trade for.

OK, I'm rambling now. I blame THAT on Drunken Stupor.


- Sirian

 

[Strauss]

The monastary in Boston may not be weedy, I'm thinking. We do need to get a couple of Missionaries going, and having a Monastary on each side of DC looks OK to me. Although Boston should still become our Heroic Epic site once we get to Lit, I think, and then transfer heavy unit duty to it while Philly catches up on infra.

I didn't think the Monastery itself is weedy, however I should have prioritized the Worker since Boston is the fastest producer of Workers (8 turns, less with the Corn farmed).

 

[Tatran]

IBT 575 AD
A handful of barbs die, we lose an archer near New York.
Napoleon wants open borders, why not.

More barbs die.

650 AD (5)
Euclid has been born in NY.

IBT 665 AD
Genghis cancels open borders.

695 AD (8)
Metal Casting is in,start to research Code of Laws.
Lizzy has already Currency and Mansa probably soon.
Euclid still lightbulbs Compass.
I could lightbulb Compass, but Alexander has already got it.
Also all our relations are cautious or worse, which prevents trading.
I could give Alexander something to make him pleased, but then he still won't
trade Compass.IW opens the path to Compass, we had better not trade for it.
Lightbulbing Compass and trading for Calendar with Mansa is an option.
The next GP (Great Scientist in Washington) will be in 13 turns.
After that we should build some temples in Washington and New York and
run some priests for those 2 shrines.We desperate need more money.
I save Euclid for now.

710 AD (9)
Switch to Calendar, until Peter wants to trade for it.

Looks like raging barbs is on.We lose another archer near Washington.

755 AD (12)
Finally, Peter wants to trade Calendar for Construction.
And his worst enemy is Frederick.Alexander's worst enemy is Mansa Musa.
Monarchy is available, but not for the same price as our oldest techs.

IBT 755 AD

Mansa offers a deal.We could use the gold,but I reject.
He offers all the gold + Currency + Polytheism for Metal Casting + Drama.I reject again.
Although I want Currency ASAP.

770 AD (13)
Call Alexander, knowing he has 180 gold.
Make a deal for his gold and Monarchy for Metal Casting.
Back to Mansa.He still wants Drama within the Currency deal.No deal.
Research towards Currency at 80%.

IBT 770 AD
Homer has been born in a far away land, so Music is out.
Elizabeth wants Drama for HBR.No.

785 AD (14)
I gambled and lost.Mansa has Metal Casting.
Research back to Code of Laws.

IBT 785 AD
Alexander also wants Drama for HBR.Again no.

800 AD (15)
Mansa has still 460 gold.
The settler for the Calendar resources (green dot) is in place.
Washington and New York are building temples, while Atlanta is building workers.

 

[mike p]

If there is a second great scientist coming along shortly anyway, shouldn't we build an Acedemy with the first one instead of just letting him gather moss?

Is it worth considering merging the second scientist? With the library and Academy bonus, a super specialist would provide 10 beakers and one hammer per turn, for the rest of the game. That seems better than lightbulbing techs that we can trade for anyway, unless the techs are on a path we really need right away.

Edited to add: It just occured to me that depending on the science rate, it might be better to merge first and then build the Academy. If 80% science isn't sustainable, then we'd be better with the merge and getting pure research than we would building an Academy when a big portion of our commerce wouldn't get modified because it's going to cash and culture. (I realize this is probably a non issue and we will end up lightbulbing something, but this is something that just occured to me for the first time, so I thought I'd share it - I always figured first GS would be for Philosophy or an Academy and never considered settling him.)

 

[Tatran]

A second GS will be in 11 turns, IIRC.
With some bad luck the GS will lightbulb Optics.

Our economy sucks.Research at 20%.
An academy would be a waste.

 

[Iustus]

Got the file, looking things over, but I will not play until tomorrow, prob about 12 hours from now.

-Iustus

 

[Iustus]

Ok, I think the Diplomatic situation is a mess. Although the map is really part of the problem, so much trouble with barbarians late.

I think we need to pick one or more people to be our friends. Those folks we cannot refuse their requests unless there is a very very good reason.

We need to make an effort to convert our friends to our relligion.

I think we should consider giving up on the English, they have their own religion now and its going to be near impossible to convert her.

Instead, I think we should consider Peter, he is just about as close, has no religion yet, and while hes a bit more warlike, shared religion is a good way to overcome that.

I still would like to get Mansa as our other buddy. He loves to trade techs, so its in our best interest to get him as our friend and everyone else's enemy.

I know we have a lot on our plate, but I would really like to get at least one missionary to Peter and Mansa. (But first, does anyone have some other suggestions?)

I know Mansa is not that close, but it should actually not be that bad to get to him through the English, and Peter is close. Having an ally that we dont share borders with is a good thing.

Alex, Genghis, Toku and Naploeon all do not have religion as well.

I would much prefer Mansa over Genghis or Napoleon. I am not sure where Alex is.

Anyone have any thoughts on the diplomacy?

-------------------------

I generally do not llike to just let a great person sit around for so long. How many turns has this one been sitting? 6x15 is 90 turns, which is 560 beakers, even without representation (810 beakers under representation).

Which brings us to our research plan, do we have one? I am a bit confused what our goal is right now. We are researching Code of Laws, is to spend 50 turns researching Civil Service next? Or to trade?

Our economy is crashing hard right now, I think we might want to trade the techs we have up on others, before they catch up and we cannot trade at all? Or is it better to just let them slowly catch up while we fix our economy?

We could lightbulb Compass, which only Alex currently knows, and trade it around with Drama for Currency and Horseback Riding (and probably Polythism).

Compass is 990 beakers, so thats not horrible for a Great Scientist (but not fantastic either, we are close to being able to use him for a 1500+ tech).

If I am reading this thread correctly, then Machinery will be the next thing that is lightbulbed after Compass, if we think we should research compass, then lightbulb Machinery.

After Machinery, the next Lightbulb would be Optics, then Astronomy if we have Optics and Machinery.

An alternative, not a bad one actually, is to trade/research polytheism, monotheism, theocracy and then lightbulb paper.

I really think we are missing out on a lot of trade options because we are missing polytheism, I think we should consider researching it soon (4 turns to do ourselves), monotheism is 6 more turns, and theocracy is very expensive.

To summarize, our near lightbulb choices:
Compass->Machinery->Optics->Astronomy
or
(Polytheism->Monotheism->Theocracy)->Paper

Now, since Machinery and Astronomy are by far the most expensive of these choices, I think we should research Compass, then lightbulb Machinery, which is one of our key techs as well.

Probably research Optics, then perhaps lightbulb astronomy.

After researching compass, we probably want to research or trade for Polytheism, so we get offered some more decent trades (it would be nice to trade Eliz for Theocracy, but we need the prerequisites first!). She might not be willing to trade while she has a monopoly though, not sure if she has one.

We will need these techs to get to Paper, which leads to Replaceable parts.

My plan: switch research back to Compass.
I will then lightbulb Machinery (it may not be complete, if not I will finish researching it).

Speak now if you object!

Overall tech plan:
(order can change, but want these techs)
Compass
Machinery->Guilds->Banking
Polytheism->Monotheism->Theology->Paper
Printing Press->Replaceable Parts

We need Banking and Paper to research Printing Press.
While Astronomy would be nice, I seem to recall that that definitely would take multiple great people to fully research, and Paper is along our beeline to lumbermills! Being able to use GS on both Machinery and Paper seems to me the right way to go.

Now I know the common thing is to get Code of Laws and Bueracracy sooner rather than later, and this puts that off some, but working non-improved plots hurts us as well.

Confucism is already founded, so its always possible we could trade for Code of Laws at some point.

-----------------------

I am tempted to trade Drama to Mansa for Polytheism + 490 gold. This will allow us to deficit research all of Compass at 80%, getting it in 15 turns if you add 2 scientists at New York. A much smarter trade would probably be HBR + 210 gold for Drama, but that will not give us enough cash to deficit research. We would have to take 20 turns to research it. Are those 5 turns worth making that bad trade?

Both Peter and Napoleon have Drama already, so we should trade it soon or someone else will. If I do trade Drama to Mansa, I should probably trade it with someone else for Horseback Riding, since Mansa will surely trade it around himself.

------------------------

Cities plan:
Boston->production/heroic epic?
Washington ? (has a library)
New York ? (has a library)
Atlanta ? (could use library)
Philidalphia ?
Seatle ?
Chicago ?

Do we have a thinking on the direction of these cities? I know to a certain extent they are all going to be hybrids, because we do not have a lot of choice on what to build on the tiles. I think we need to make sure we get windmills up where they can go as fast as possible, before a forest spreads.

Where do we want to build forges?

-Iustus

 

[Iustus]

The one thing I need feedback on asap is our research. Code of Laws is 100/865, and Compass, which I thought we started, is not, its 0/990. I still think Compass is the way to go, but I am reluctant to change research mid-stream.

Right now we are paying 15/turn in city maint. And researching 50 beakers/turn. I think the boost from windmills and watermills will make up no courthouses. And I am still hopeful we can trade for CoL with one of the techs on our path to lumbermills. Especially if we agressively spread Buddism around now, when it does the most good. One lone missionary is enough to convert someone to Buddism if we do it before everyone starts sharing borders (of course they will change again if we do not follow up with more misssionaries).

On the other hand, being able to use our GS for Machinery and then Paper seems like a huge win to me.

-Iustus

 

[Tatran]

@Iustus
I won't take long before you and I are on totally different level
to proceed this game.

We cannot compete with the tech leaders, so every trade option is
welcome.I do agree to work on the relations via religion.
Also we should trade for what we need and not to have trade options
with the tech leaders or we'll get the ""becoming too advanced" message
soon.

Lizzy won't be a problem, she favors Free Religion (+5 or +6).
Peter will be a problem.Already in a Police State and I don't like to fight
cossacks and he is our neighbor.
Napoleon (+6) and Cyrus (+3) favor Representation.
All the others will be a problem if we don't convert them.

I could have merge the GS, but we haven't discussed into which city.
I don't like the idea to go after the religious techs.We can't use them
and we don't need them.Same thing for the exploration techs.

Also to put the scientists back in Washington and New York back to
work we lower the chance for an early Great Prophet for our economy.

To research CoL.Only Frederick knows it.It will help maybe in trading,
to lower our city maintenance and we have a discount on the houses.

No one else has Drama.Peter and Napoleon don't have the Alphabet and
thus no Drama.What do we want with HBR ? We have war elephants and
we can't build knights unless we trade for iron.
Also going for Mansa's gold we risk to get some tribute demands.

"Where do we want forges ?" Everywhere.

 

[Iustus]

Oops, my mistake about Peter and Napoleon.

We need the religious techs for Paper which we need for Replaceable Parts.

All those techs I listed above are needed to get there.

It is looking to me like there are going to be some wars before Representation and Free Religion.

Mansa is willing to trade techs much longer than most leaders, which is why I want him as our friend.

I outlined a plan that would get us Machinery at the end of my turn (or close to it, if the GS doesnt fully lightbulb it).

That said, if no one else speaks up in the next couple hours, I will just stick with Code of Laws I guess, since we already have some beakers into it.

If we already have a plan that we are working on, thats fine, I just do not know what it is, and getting to replaceable parts soon seems to me to be a good idea. What is our tech plan?

The reason I wanted Horseback Riding was not only because it was the only tech we could get, but because Horse Archers would make nice escorts to missionaries to get by the barbarians. I am not sure chariots will cut it, or they have to go half as fast.

So, everyone except Peter and Alex have Alphabet, did we get any trade value out of it?

Looking a bit more, everyone but Toku the hopeless and Napoleon have Metal Casting. We could trade that with Napoleon for both Polytheism and HBR. The problem with that is that it does not net us any money.

Mansa, Alex and Elizabeth all have Currency. If we could trade for that, it would make Code of Laws cheeper, assuming we cannot trade for it outright.

We have this expensive tech, Philosophy, but we cannot trade it to anyone other than Fredrick because it requires either Drama or Code of Laws. Assuming we are not thinking about getting Liberalism (are we?) then we could get some real nice trades with Philosophy.

Napoleon is seriously backward, at least as far as we can see (he might be deep along the Polytheism route). I think its worth considering doing some trades with him of our techs that everyone else knows. The downside is he is Mansa's worst enemy I think.

I still think we are better off trading for Code of Laws and Currency, rather than researching them ourselves. Better to go a direction everyone else is not, and trade for the others, than go the same way everyone else is going. I fear we will get Code of Laws about the same time as everyone else, if not after, so we will not even be able to trade it around.

----------------------

Anyway, back on point, am I understanding you that you want to befriend Eliz, Cyrus and Napoleon? And make Peter into an enemy sooner rather than later to avoid cossacks? Because I was going to send a missionary to Peter this turn to convert him, I will not do that if everyone is agreed to make him an enemy.

-Iustus

 

[Tatran]

"One needs to learn to find things on his own."

See post 121.

CoL + Civil Service also leads to Paper.

With that new city our science will drop to 10%.
Let's focus on our economy first,without it also no research.

I don't think we should group the AIs in friends and enemies
right now.We need all the trade opportunities given.