[Recruitment Only] America 1492 - 1914

[Feeder74]

Hey, I've been here for a few weeks looking at the various mods available, and getting ideas for my own mod. Anyhow the time has come for me to start work on it, and I am looking for a few people to help me build it.

People that I want include...

[History Buffs] To debate American History (Both North and South).

[XML'rs and Text Writers] To aide in the production of pedia and other XML areas.

[Python] To aide in the production of various Python scripts.

[C++ Gurus] To aide in the production of SDK edits (which may yet be fairly extensive)

[3D Moddelers and 2D Skinners] To help with a few custom units, buildings and resources.

[Anyone with good ideas] To suggest various things from audio files to ways of improving the game play.

I am aiming at 1 year to have playable mod released, at least as a maximum time limit, not sure if it will be Beta or Final by that time. I am also aiming at having the FINAL mod's size to be equal to or less than 700 MB. I would like to use SVN, but still need to look into this to ensure it as a viable option. The mod is going to be for the latest version of BTS - which ever that is at the time.

Questions about my plans can and will be discussed here, though most of the work and discussion will be done on an invite only forum.

I am planning to be borrowing elements from both Rhye's and Road to War, as well as throwing in some new ideas.

 

[GoodGame]

My number one thought is that it may be too broad a time line to do in detail, but with some modding you can do some interesting political dynamics, like the formation of federal states by the civs (parallel to the UN wonder, which could perhaps be cloned to allow multiple UN-type organizations).

Will the map be North and South America in isolation, or with parts of Europe abstracted in? I'd vote for the second option.

Since RFC and RtW will be models, does that imply you will have multiple scenarios of various degrees of historical scriptedness?

 

[Feeder74]

My number one thought is that it may be too broad a time line to do in detail, but with some modding you can do some interesting political dynamics, like the formation of federal states by the civs (parallel to the UN wonder, which could perhaps be cloned to allow multiple UN-type organizations).

I had thought to use eras to reflect this, and to make each era reflect these portions of history as closely as I can research them too, I am unfortunately not American myself, and while I have a circumstantial knowledge on American history from culture and school (being Australian I get a good American upbringing ) I still personally need to do a lot of digging.
As such - each era will be potentially quite a different game.

Will the map be North and South America in isolation, or with parts of Europe abstracted in? I'd vote for the second option.

I have been wrestling with how much of South America to actually include - but have decided to include all of it, my plans were to have the rest of the world fairly well scripted as behind the scenes stuff, and could even later include a special news screen in the main interface, which gives a rough low-down on the rest of the world. I really didn't want to shift the focus from America, since before I know it - I would be using a global map of the world instead.

Since RFC and RtW will be models, does that imply you will have multiple scenarios of various degrees of historical scriptedness?

I had been thinking of providing interface with various modes of play, antyhing from open play - which would just be like a regular moded game, through historically acurate, and might, depending on how much I get into it include a History Mode, which really you don't get to play so much as learn about the historical model used in the rest of the mod, which will be chosen much the same way as you do in RtW.

 

[GoodGame]

Well just from the amateur [history buff] side, I think a good scenario would cover these aspects:

1. European influence on the Americas. A good speculative scenario would also allow for Chinese and African (probably Mali) influence as well. And don't forget the Russians either, who had influence on the western coast of North America. So I'd plan on abstracting parts of SE Asia, Russia/Siberia, NW Africa into the scenario, as well as the majority of North and South America in detail.

2. Exploration. Most explorations were funded by monarchies with the intent of claiming territory for homelands, or discovering better trade routes/resources. That suggests to me great person led expeditions (probably a new kind of Great Person), and sometime kind of system for claiming lands by founding missions/forts, which would be improvements that can be built anywhere and generate culture.

3. Native cultures. This is easy as BTS does the work for you. A few more UBs or a native tech tree would be commendable. Probably no need to make the natives playable, but I suggest not making them barbarians, at least not as the scenario becomes improved. If you have a realistic tons of native cultures, then allow them to form confederacies (UNs) amongst themselves. Speculatively, allow them to form confederacies with colonies that have broken away form the colonizing powers.

4. Colonization. Filling up the new world is pretty stressful---have issues with the natives, other colonizers, and wilderness. Compacts between the colonizing powers were needed to help keep the peace, so the ability to map out territory as yours to your competitors would be commendable, though overall the war/peace/open borders system should do ok with forts generating culture, and perhaps the missions could generate favorable relations with the native cultures, while culture encroachment might have the opposite effect.
The means of colonization will be important----imperial vs. corporate. The more corporate nature of some colonies led quicker to independence, but would grow quicker do to immigration (as people flee oppression from their home countries, or seek their fortune); More corporate colonies are likely to form local confederacies forming between colonies. Imperial colonies would be like police states and require expensive upkeep. Spain would follow the Imperial model, while Virginia / Pennsylvania might be a good example of a more corporate kind of colony.

 

[GoodGame]

continuing...

5. Colonial trade / economy
Trade with native---e.g. furs, but also abuse of natives as labor for local luxuries---e.g. gold mines. So the ability to trade with friendly natives for fur, or even cultural influence (control of lands). Ability to enslave unfriendly natives for labor units (slave worker unit).

Development of plantation style colonies, and importation of labor, and transition of labor from indentured to slavery. This supports the so called "Triangle Trade" that was nominally slaves, sugar, alcohol. Basically slaves to work plantations to produce crops to produce goods for export to the colonial powers. This is important because of how lucrative it was, it sped up immigration, but led to later social issues, and can lead to challenging game situations such as the desire to abolish slavery, and can segway into future issues like suffrage/citzenship/human rights.

6. Confederacy

Corporate colonies forming larger political bodies (analogs to the Civ4's version of the UN). It'd be awesome if multiple bodies could exist, and even more interesting if you could belong to more than one. A simple victory would be to create the USA as a "UN" of sorts. And the ability for UN's to spawn seditious UN's would be great as well.
Confederacy will eventually lead to independence from the colonial power, and perhaps a War of Independence. Sedition in a Confederacy can lead to a War of States (e.g. US Civil War).
A key interest in a confederacy will be major issues like state's rights within the confederacy, and things such as temperance/state religion, abolition (of slavery), and suffrage (equal voting and legal right).

7. Industrialization / Great power.
This would be the transcendence goal of the game, to become an international power. No need to actually script say WW1, but having production, capital, culture, and military ratings of a great power should be the final victory, I'd think.

 

[GoodGame]

The main game design challenge is probably going to be how to seemless jump between eras as a player? E.g. from colonial power, to independent colony/confederating colony, and finally to confederation/federation.

 

[Dale]

Have you seen this mod? http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=3667

It's only for vanilla civ4, but might give you some good ideas.

 

[Feeder74]

The main game design challenge is probably going to be how to seemless jump between eras as a player? E.g. from colonial power, to independent colony/confederating colony, and finally to confederation/federation.

Yeah, to this end I had planned a quest or dynamic quest that would mark the end of the era, rather than a technology based set of eras - still waiting for something to compile the SDK with before I can start this though.
Thanks for your input, I'll send you a PM.

 

[Feeder74]

Have you seen this mod? http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=3667

It's only for vanilla civ4, but might give you some good ideas.

Thanks Dale, I'll have a good look at that mod.

 

[jefmart1]

Hi,

I had an idea along this line but I was going to make it more like Colonization (the Sid Meier classic). I would stop it in 1800 after the American Revolution and the formation of the US. I know this is US centric, but no other countries broke free of their Imperial powers to become free nations like the US did. Brazil became a de facto free nation, but was ruled by the King of Portugals son. The others didn't break free until much later.

The idea was that (like in Colonization) the colonies would break free (the Declaration of Independence was a team project) and once they won the war they had to create a Constitution and Build the White House to achieve victory.

I like the idea of a more freeform play rather then sticking to history specifically. Although the start times for each country would be staggered based on their first colony in the new world. However I was going to have the technology keep up for the later starters so the Spanish and Portuegese did not get a huge advantage. And European events would impact play. ie wars between colonies, extra settlers, etc.

I have a complete building lists, tech trees, ideas for some unique rules (like native converts and slaves), and unit lists for the Europeans and Natives. I also thought about how to recreate the purchasing of settlers/experts from Europe like in Colonization using an interface similar to Broken Star.

Also, that great people would also include planters and breeders who would create resources in the New World like rice instead of them starting there (to make it more realistic).

I am willing to share all of this since I cannot mod or program. I am an ideas guy. Let me know.

 

[Feeder74]

jefmart1:Thanks m8, I have gotten really buisy with World of Civilization the past few days (downloading endlessly on a crappy connection would be more precise) and have taken the time to think about this project a bit more in the lengthy clumps of time I have had while being unable to do anything on the net (28.8K blows - but it should be fixed by December).
I'd love to see and hear what you have to say, but for the moment I am flat out, since in about 3.5 hours I got a 12 hour train trip back up the coast, and I'm not sure if I will have internet when I get there. Besides all that this project is still on my most wanted list, and should be go go go when I get back (hopefully about christmas time).
I'll do what I can to be back on these forums before then though, and I'll send you a link then to my forum, which is basically supposed to be the tabletop for the ideas behind the mod.

 

[rene_ryou]

i would be interested in helping in any way possible. American history is one of my primary interests, and i can do xml modding.

 

[NP300]

I know this is US centric, but no other countries broke free of their Imperial powers to become free nations like the US did.

Most of Spanish-America broke free during the 1820s. That is only 40 years after the US.

As for the mod, Asia was probably not an important factor up until the mid 1800s. But by the 1850s Asia started becoming important in American history, with the opening up of Japan, US intervention in China, and the acquisition of the Philippines by the US.

 

[GoodGame]

True, but for some interesting speculation there is the possibility of the Chinese great fleet encountering perhaps the Incans. And a similar story bordering on myth for the Malinese as well.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpa...25750C0A9649C8B63&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=print
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abubakari_II

Both would make for an interesting speculative scenario if this one starts in the 14th C.E.

Most of Spanish-America broke free during the 1820s. That is only 40 years after the US.

As for the mod, Asia was probably not an important factor up until the mid 1800s. But by the 1850s Asia started becoming important in American history, with the opening up of Japan, US intervention in China, and the acquisition of the Philippines by the US.