Redcoat uniforms in Civ7

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

Do you think this is a better representations of Redcoats in Civ7? Using Early 19th Century uniforms seen in Napoleonic Wars (Including second war between British Empire and the United States of America in 1812) ?

Tunic. 1st Attempts

2nd Attempts. This one is closer to actual Napoleonic Redcoats.

3rd Attempts. fully attached

This is actually a WIP for my mod, this one actually made by combining both ingame Redcoat pants and inner shirt and Highlander tunic.

Actually this is a silly question

The Stock Civ6 Redcoats had a bit of anachrnistic mixture of Late 18th Century British Regulars with options to wear Belgic Shako. in reality Redcoats only wear that type of Shako in 1830s and not with War of American Independence uniforms. My WIP isn't actually correct soz and actually I want to use French Imperial Guard model as a mixture instead

 

[Henri Christophe]

Redcoats are the best to represent england.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Redcoats are the best to represent england.

Probably not over the Longbowmen, or even an Early Modern naval unit.

I think the Redcoats are fine if they come with a British leader, like Victoria in Civ 6, but England can be represented by others. So my vote would be determined by the leader.

 

[Henri Christophe]

Probably not over the Longbowmen, or even an Early Modern naval unit.

Longbowmen was a boring unique unit, I believe. But the Unique Naval Unit was good to represent Britain.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Longbowmen was a boring unique unit, I believe. But the Unique Naval Unit was good to represent Britain.

Gameplay aside, they were definitely iconic and do represent specifically England, not Great Britian, which is my point.

 

[BuchiTaton]

England the Pirate civ = Queen Elizabeth I = Sea Dog UU

There are many more civs that could use the slot for an unique medieval ranged unit, let England shine in what they do the best.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

England the Pirate civ = Queen Elizabeth I = Sea Dog UU

There are many more civs that could use the slot for an unique medieval ranged unit, let England shine in what they do the best.

Why not both?
Ideally England could get the Longbowmen as the civ UU while Elizabeth herself could get the Sea Dog, and the Redcoat for another appropriate leader.

 

[Saxo Grammaticus]

Napoleonic Wars through the Crimean War strikes a good balance between aesthetics and what one would argue in terms of the heights of British power. The shako can stay on the table.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

Napoleonic Wars through the Crimean War strikes a good balance between aesthetics and what one would argue in terms of the heights of British power. The shako can stay on the table.

One of the advantages of the 'red coat' over other units is the length of time they were important in game terms.
The longbow system (the weapon itself has been used many times in many places by many people: what made it a battle winner for the English was the system of yeomen trained and organized as bands under local leaders so that the firepower of the bows could be directed and controlled) was a Medieval weapon system, and really only developed about half-way through the Era.

By contrast, the Red coat was adopted as the 'standard' uniform for English troops with the New Model Army in 1645 CE (and is first mentioned as descriptive of English soldiers in Ireland in 1581, where they were called 'red cassocks'), and it lasted as a combat uniform until Khaki was officially adopted as service dress in 1902. In other words, Redcoats were late Renaissance/Early Modern, Industrial, and early Modern Era units. And in all three Eras their characteristics were heavy firepower from whatever weapon they were carrying - smoothbore matchlock, flintlock, or percussion cap musket, rifled musket, breechloading rifle or bolt-action smokeless powder rifle - and a ferocious ability to take and deliver punishment whether defending or attacking.

While a Naval UU would seem appropriate for England/Britain, they have the disadvantage that they are not always appropriate to the in-game situation - like on a Pangaea map or an Inland starting position.
That's why I've argued that UUs and other Uniques should be By Choice in each game: start on the coast, pick a naval UU like the Sea Dog, 74-gun Ship of the Line or Battlecruiser for England. Start in the middle of a continent, choose Redcoats or Yeomen Bowmen as your UU.

 

[awesome]

One of the advantages of the 'red coat' over other units is the length of time they were important in game terms.
The longbow system (the weapon itself has been used many times in many places by many people: what made it a battle winner for the English was the system of yeomen trained and organized as bands under local leaders so that the firepower of the bows could be directed and controlled) was a Medieval weapon system, and really only developed about half-way through the Era.

By contrast, the Red coat was adopted as the 'standard' uniform for English troops with the New Model Army in 1645 CE (and is first mentioned as descriptive of English soldiers in Ireland in 1581, where they were called 'red cassocks'), and it lasted as a combat uniform until Khaki was officially adopted as service dress in 1902. In other words, Redcoats were late Renaissance/Early Modern, Industrial, and early Modern Era units. And in all three Eras their characteristics were heavy firepower from whatever weapon they were carrying - smoothbore matchlock, flintlock, or percussion cap musket, rifled musket, breechloading rifle or bolt-action smokeless powder rifle - and a ferocious ability to take and deliver punishment whether defending or attacking.

While a Naval UU would seem appropriate for England/Britain, they have the disadvantage that they are not always appropriate to the in-game situation - like on a Pangaea map or an Inland starting position.
That's why I've argued that UUs and other Uniques should be By Choice in each game: start on the coast, pick a naval UU like the Sea Dog, 74-gun Ship of the Line or Battlecruiser for England. Start in the middle of a continent, choose Redcoats or Yeomen Bowmen as your UU.

That sounds fun, but there aren’t so many options for some of the more ancient civs.
Maybe narrow it down to two possibilities to choose from

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

That sounds fun, but there aren’t so many options for some of the more ancient civs.
Maybe narrow it down to two possibilities to choose from

Again, have posted on this before: my solution would be to have both Really Unique and General Uniques available.
Each Civ would get as many Really Unique Units, Buildings, etc as we can historically (or semi-historically) justify. Obviously, some long-lasting polities or cultures would have more than others.
But in addition, there would be more 'general' Unique Units and other Uniques available based on your in-game situation.
So, for example, if your starting position is on the coast and you are playing, say, Aztecs, you could choose a peculiarly Aztec land Unique Unit like Jaguar or Eagle Warrior, or you might choose a 'general' Unique like Pentekonter (early galley-replacement warship) or Hanseatic Cog (Unique Naval Trade Route enhancer).

Another possibility would be to 'liven up' the game by giving you the option of choosing a new Unique every Era. For many Civs that would mean they would have only General Uniques available for many Eras, but the number of General Uniques is practically unlimited when you consider the number of variations on units that world history provides. Especially if we open it up to allow you to choose a Unique from another Civ who, in that game, decided not to use it: enter the Aztec Sea Dogs!

For our example above, that might mean that the Aztecs always start with their 'own' Unique of Jaguar or Eagle Warrior, but in the Classical Era they could keep the same Unique or swap it for a Liburnian Naval Raiding Unique or (say, if Genghis is their neighbor) a Spearman Unique like Heavy Peltasts or Cardaches.

 

[BuchiTaton]

Again, have posted on this before: my solution would be to have both Really Unique and General Uniques available.
Each Civ would get as many Really Unique Units, Buildings, etc as we can historically (or semi-historically) justify. Obviously, some long-lasting polities or cultures would have more than others.
But in addition, there would be more 'general' Unique Units and other Uniques available based on your in-game situation.
So, for example, if your starting position is on the coast and you are playing, say, Aztecs, you could choose a peculiarly Aztec land Unique Unit like Jaguar or Eagle Warrior, or you might choose a 'general' Unique like Pentekonter (early galley-replacement warship) or Hanseatic Cog (Unique Naval Trade Route enhancer).

Another possibility would be to 'liven up' the game by giving you the option of choosing a new Unique every Era. For many Civs that would mean they would have only General Uniques available for many Eras, but the number of General Uniques is practically unlimited when you consider the number of variations on units that world history provides. Especially if we open it up to allow you to choose a Unique from another Civ who, in that game, decided not to use it: enter the Aztec Sea Dogs!

For our example above, that might mean that the Aztecs always start with their 'own' Unique of Jaguar or Eagle Warrior, but in the Classical Era they could keep the same Unique or swap it for a Liburnian Naval Raiding Unique or (say, if Genghis is their neighbor) a Spearman Unique like Heavy Peltasts or Cardaches.

Considering CIV6's huge amount of civs/leaders, each design inclueded their UU is a valuable element that gives them their unique gameplay focus and flavor.
Let any civs to pick many and different uniques would exahust options for more civs and dilute each civ identity. Basically we will end with Humandkind.

Designs that include terrain related units and bonus should be ballanced by better world generation, placing civs in a proper starting point. If other unique units are avaible they should be something more than a free choice each era, they must come as mercenaries and axiliaries from minor non playable civs, a reward from interact with a element in the map.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

. . .Designs that include terrain related units and bonus should be ballanced by better world generation, placing civs in a proper starting point. If other unique units are avaible they should be something more than a free choice each era, they must come as mercenaries and axiliaries from minor non playable civs, a reward from interact with a element in the map.

"Better World generation" and "placing civs in a proper starting point" would be ideal, but, to put it bluntly, the Civ games since Civ IV have utterly failed at this, to the point where I'm tired of waiting for them to get it right.
It is now at the point, after all these years, that I assume if I am playing a Civ with a terrain-related Unique, like one that requires sea access or desert tiles, I will have to re-start between 4 and 12+ times to get a start that makes any sense out of the Unique. Too many times I have restarted Norway or England in Civ VI a half-dozen times or more just trying to get a coastal start, or even a start with a coast in sight.

So, instead, let me pick a Unique that matches the terrain, instead of waiting another decade for them to give me terrain that matches the Unique.

 

[awesome]

It’s a very commonly discussed idea, but I’ve never been a fan of it, because it seems like it would cut down on uniqueness of civilizations themselves.
That being said, if the idea of a unit that’s unique to a civilization turned into just a promotion that’s unique to the units in that civilization, I might be able to get behind it (and since a lot of unique units are currently just regular units with minor tweaks anyway, it wouldn’t be too hard to implement in a future game without losing the same flavor).

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

It’s a very commonly discussed idea, but I’ve never been a fan of it, because it seems like it would cut down on uniqueness of civilizations themselves.
That being said, if the idea of a unit that’s unique to a civilization turned into just a promotion that’s unique to the units in that civilization, I might be able to get behind it (and since a lot of unique units are currently just regular units with minor tweaks anyway, it wouldn’t be too hard to implement in a future game without losing the same flavor).

One consideration that I keep running up against is that many of the Unique Attributes of units, buildings, institutions in history are the result of such a complex and peculiar set of events that it is simply impossible to recreate them in any ordinary course of play: so Uniques have to be by Fiat, and then it becomes a case of "How Unique Is It?" - That is, is it absolutely Unique to a single Civilization (in a single moment in time) or, potentially, could anybody put it together?

My argument is, basically, that many Uniques aren't that Unique, and so could potentially be adopted by any Civ with the right set of conditions or requirements. To make such a thing playable, and as you say, keep Civs Unique in the game, I would put artificial/in-game limitations on the adoption of 'general' Uniques. Like, for instance:

*You cannot select a General Unique if your Civ as a Specific Unique for that Era.

*Any Unique is, in any particular game, Unique to One Civ - no selecting a General Unique that someone else has already selected

*Uniques in many cases have specific Requirements - don't meet the requirements, can't select the Unique - no grabbing a fantastic Desert Raider/Trader Unique Unit if your Civ doesn't have any desert tiles, or being the only builder of steam driven Monitors if you have no seacoast!

Other considerations could also be adopted - after all, games have a long history of having artificial requirements/limitations on things that historically were near-universal - to keep each Civ in each game Unique and, within the limits of the in-game situation in any game, identifiable as its historical counterpart, at least in the gamer's view.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

One consideration that I keep running up against is that many of the Unique Attributes of units, buildings, institutions in history are the result of such a complex and peculiar set of events that it is simply impossible to recreate them in any ordinary course of play: so Uniques have to be by Fiat, and then it becomes a case of "How Unique Is It?" - That is, is it absolutely Unique to a single Civilization (in a single moment in time) or, potentially, could anybody put it together?

My argument is, basically, that many Uniques aren't that Unique, and so could potentially be adopted by any Civ with the right set of conditions or requirements. To make such a thing playable, and as you say, keep Civs Unique in the game, I would put artificial/in-game limitations on the adoption of 'general' Uniques. Like, for instance:

I believe why they specifically chose the name "unique" is they needed special units or infrastructure to only be buildable by that civilization, in the game. I agree with you that many units or infrastructure are not always going to completely be unique to that given civilization throughout history.

I think the term "emblematic" used by Humankind, or even the term "iconic" would fit the description better. But for game purposes its also easy to understand that only England can build Sea Dogs, as they are unique to them.

I still think a good solution would to at least give each civilization a unique/iconic, whatever you want to call it, unit that it was known for producing throughout history.
You then are also able to acquire another host of unique units through various ways, befriending tribes and militaristic city-states each having their own unique unit, own an ivory corporation to produce elephant units etc.

 

[BuchiTaton]

Bad world generation is a problem that Firaxis CAN and MUST resolve in CIV7, is a shame that this and AI turned worse in latest CIV games.

Anyway, instead of use the "pick new bonus/uniques" each era from Humankind would be better to incorporate their "start as nomad" era, this would help to give players more time to find and choose a proper place for your civ. While exploring you can collect food from natural sources and gain one of three traits Agrarian, Pastorial and Maritime once you select one place to settle and advance to Ancient Era.

Also additional bonus/units should come from "minor civs" (city states/barbarian clans), this would be both more realistic and rewarding.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Anyway, instead of use the "pick new bonus/uniques" each era from Humankind would be better to incorporate their "start as nomad" era, this would help to give players more time to find and choose a proper place for your civ. While exploring you can collect food from natural sources and gain one of three traits Agrarian, Pastorial and Maritime once you select one place to settle and advance to Ancient Era.

To add on I still would like for players to be able to choose your playable civ, such as England and Phoenicia, in a menu before the game loads like currently. In that regard, in the nomadic era of the game, you'd be able to move around and easily find the coast before you choose a location to permanently settle a city.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

Bad world generation is a problem that Firaxis CAN and MUST resolve in CIV7, is a shame that this and AI turned worse in latest CIV games.

Anyway, instead of use the "pick new bonus/uniques" each era from Humankind would be better to incorporate their "start as nomad" era, this would help to give players more time to find and choose a proper place for your civ. While exploring you can collect food from natural sources and gain one of three traits Agrarian, Pastorial and Maritime once you select one place to settle and advance to Ancient Era.

Also additional bonus/units should come from "minor civs" (city states/barbarian clans), this would be both more realistic and rewarding.

No question, at least in my mind, that Civ VII needs to drop the hoary old "Everybody Build A City In 4000 BCE Start" and provide a more dynamic starting condition or set of conditions. Humankind's Neolithic/nomadic start would be a good place to begin exploring variations . . .

Equally without question in my mind is that Civ VII needs a good Mercenary Mechanic and Allied Forces Mechanic to make better use of 'minor powers' units. Many units were only available by hire from barbarians, and many 'unique' units were only available from 'City States' or their equivalent. Opening up the possibilities of getting these types of units (and structures, bonuses and other attributes) from minor powers, City States, or purchase would alone dramatically increase the dynamism of the game, which IMHO is desperately needed.