Regular Tanks and Mech. Infantry

[player1 fanatic]

Are Tanks worth using after Mech. Infantry is available, while Modern Armor is still not option (lack of aluminium or Composites tech)?

From my first look, the advantage of Tank is that it can use city attacker promotions, while on the other hand Mech. Infantry is not vulnerable to Gunships and can intercept other air units too.

What do others think about this issue?

Should Tanks still be used for city attacking job, or Mech. Infantry should take that job until Modern Armor arrives?

 

[Harry Haller]

The city raider promotions give tanks a big bonus in attacking cities that MI don't get. Tanks also get blitz, which I don't think MI get. Also, do MI get the promotions that cause collateral damage? I find that MI are better to bring in as defenders to hold the cities that your tanks have overrun.

 

[rgbender62]

MI do not get collateral damage! Trying to use MI to take a city is an absolute disaster. The only way to take a city which has MI defenders is with Tanks and Artillery. You will lose the first few units that attack but that collateral damage really takes hold and then the MI start falling. If you try and take a city that has MI defenders with units that do not do collateral damage you will go through a lot of units and will still probably fail.

 

[Ungar]

Tanks are pretty useless.

They can't beat Mech Infantry defending in cities and you get both units at the same time.

Using tanks to attack cities does collateral damage, but you'll always lose that tank.

Better to invest in a fleet of fighters and bombers.

Send fighters in to bomb a city defense to 0%. This should also use up any of the AI's interceptors. Chances are your fighters will get damaged, but won't get destroyed.

Then send in the bombers to do collateral damage on units in the city.

Then your mech infantry should be able to win all the fights against damaged defenders.

Air power is almost required.

Tanks can't bombard city defenses. Artillery can only move ONE square per turn and are too slow to keep up with Mech Infantry.

You can bomb city defenses and do collateral damage with Air Power..

Alternatives:

Option 1. For coastal cities bomb city defenses with battleships. Then send in fighters to do collateral damage and soak up interceptors. Then use bombers.

Option 2. For cities one Square away from a coastline, send in a bunch of transports with Battleships on the same square. The transports should carry some Mech Infantry for defense and stacks of Artillery.

Dump your troops on a square next to the city on a forest or hill square. Then use artillery the next turn to bomb city defenses to zero. Then send in fighters and bombers to do collateral damage. Use any spare Mech Infantry and Artillery to take out defenders afterwards.

 

[Ungar]

I should add that having multiple attacks is pretty useless as well.

Your tank gets damaged in the first round which makes it very unlikely it will survive a second round of attacks if you plan to use it again.

Increased chance to withdraw from combat is always better.

If you withdraw the unit survives.
You get exp credit for withdrawing like winning a fight.
You will still get in a lot of collateral damage on a withdrawal.

..

FYI I also use bombers for defense. Any stack of enemy units moving through my territory gets the big hurt. My ground units only move out of cities to do mop up afterwards.

 

[MrCarrot]

I should add that having multiple attacks is pretty useless as well.

Whaaa? Assuming you've bombed the defenders down to 50% damage prior to arriving at the city, tanks or - especially - modern armour often have a pretty good chance of getting through two attacks without taking too much damage. Even if you just use the second attack to finish off obsolete units at the bottom of a big defensive stack you end up saving a ton of time in the long run.

 

[Ungar]

A tanks costs just as many hammers to build as a bomber.

A bomber will not take any damage on its collateral damage bombing mission. It can be used over and over every round. A tank doing attacks takes damage in return and has to rest to heal up.

Mech Infantry have a higher stength than regular tanks. You get to build both at the same time when you discover robotics. Mech Infantry are also cheaper to build.

Once you get a city defenders down to 50% you can just use Mech Infantry to overun it. The higher strength makes up for any promotions a tank can get.

You have to maintain an Air Force in the end usually.

Using troops against a city that hasn't had its cultural defenses reduced to 0% is like hitting a brick wall.

Tanks can't bomb cities. Artillery can, but they move too slow. Your only viable option is air power. You might as well use Air Power to do air strikes for collateral damage afterwards.

Tanks are a luxury only if you have enough bombers.

Basically I rather invest hammers in bombers than tanks.

 

[MrCarrot]

Once you get a city defenders down to 50% you can just use Mech Infantry to overun it. The higher strength makes up for any promotions a tank can get.

But, in theory, half the number of tanks can do the same job. (Especially against AI cities with a couple of decent defenders and a ton of older units)

And I dont think anyone was advocating not using bombers...

EDIT: Also Mech Inf cost 20 more hammers than Tanks according to my manual.

 

[player1 fanatic]

Well, I do know how to soften up defenders.

The real question is what to do after that.
Should Tanks or Mech. Infantry be used?

Tanks have advantage of city attacker promotions, while Mech. Infantry is all around unit useful for other things.

 

[Ungar]

Tanks are a new class of units.

It is possible to get Mech Infantry with City Assault bonuses.

If you have really old units with City Assault promotions you can upgrade them to Mech Infantry.

One of the problems I have with tanks is that they become outdated unless you upgrade them to Modern Armor.

Then you start losing Modern Armor left and right.

Modern Armor have a higher strength rating than Mech Infantry and whenever you get attacked, the Modern Armor is the first unit which takes hits while defending.

It's hard to keep Modern Armor healthy for attacks when they are the first ones to take hits on defense.

Modern Armor also take a ton of hammers to build. I think they cost more than Battleships and Bombers.

Losing one is really costly.

I only use Modern Armor for moping up enemy stacks in my own territory after my bombers weaken them.

 

[Zoizite]

First post.

I've found that the Drill promotions (+first strikes) tends to help tanks and especially modern armor a lot, with their high base strength. After properly bombing a city, I frequently have my tanks lose little to no strength after their first attack. Of course regular tanks vs. mech infantry might be a bit tougher, I imagine it would still work out. Drill also helps out in the field, where city raider is fairly useless.

 

[Zhahz]

I guess it would depend on the situation. Since I'm only researching one tech at a time I usually don't have MI at the same time as armor! Once I get MI I'd certainly use them to attack when the odds are better for them than a tank. Sometimes I'll research to get MA before MI though, and then the MI will almost always be defenders, medics, or possibly amongst the last attackers taking out damaged/obsolete defenders (although I prefer my armor get the xp and promotions).

Then you start losing Modern Armor left and right.

Modern Armor have a higher strength rating than Mech Infantry and whenever you get attacked, the Modern Armor is the first unit which takes hits while defending.

It's hard to keep Modern Armor healthy for attacks when they are the first ones to take hits on defense.

Not really a problem for me.

I mix up promotions so not all of my armor are city raiders. A MA with combat 3, for ex, is base 52 str or so and very durable. A few MA stacked together means no single MA defends against every attack. Medic promoted MI with my stacks and in my conquested cities leads to quick recovery. Medic and combat promoted gunships are good escorts. A little recon and collateral bombing of any units outside of cities never hurts either.

Not to mention that any enemies that attack my army in the field and get destroyed are no longer defending a city. Units are almost always harder to kill in cities (they'll be fortified at the least) so I'm always happy to see them suicide against my armor in the field.

 

[Kilt]

Well, I am always in the situation where the AI gets Mech Inf first and I have tanks.
If the mech inf is defending a city, I just bomb it till it is about 18 strength. If I am still worried about my tank, I will hit the mech with a marine, or artillery or other unit I consider expendable. Due to my civ choice and barracks my tank usually has 2 upgrades, so I am generally not keen on them getting taken out. For a defending tank, their worst enenmy seems to be artillery. Keeping them stacked with a marine will negate the artillery but usually the collateral damage will make it an easy kill for the next mech inf. If there are any mech inf running around outside the city, I usually use fighters to weaken them before I hit them with my tank.

For mobility and city attack ability, plus blitz, I really consider tanks indispensible. And when you get modern armor, you just upgrade all your old tanks and have a good supply of lvl 3-5 modern armor. And they work well for pillaging if used in tandem with choppers. 4-5 chopper/tank units pillaging supply lines is a quick way to isolate a city. You may lose 1 or 2 of the units, but I usually feel that is evened out with the upgrades your remaining units get mopping up the leftovers.

Kilt.

 

[syneris]

On Noble Difficulty at Normal Speed, You need ~24000 more points of research to be able to build Mech Infs. Plastic, Radio, Computers, and Robotics are all post tank techs.
Tanks can get first strike and non-grandfathered city attack promotions.

 

[anton_z1]

It is better to build bombers, instead of wasting tanks on suicide missions.
By the way i never build tanks. I use modern armor instead (coz it takes me something like 15 turns to get modern armor after i get tanks).

I never attack with MI, coz they dont have any attack bonuses (except the old scrap i upgraded and which have city rading level III).

 

[Joh]

I find MI better for taking cities than modern armour, or tanks for that matter. The AI has a thing for SAM infantry, who tend to do a rather lot of damage against tanks, but not MI.

Then if you take tanks there is the perfect counter of gunships.

 

[zafyro]

Tanks are good for me ... i get them much before MI starts to get importance. Also they can get a great withdrwal chance making them better city besiegers than artillery