Rethinking the Bazooka Line and Proposing a Future Upgrade Path

[CAYM]

While working on VP modding, I noticed that the Bazooka line begins to show a significant disconnect from modern military reality.
This issue largely stems from VP’s decision to grant the Bazooka a range of 3.


In base VP, the Bazooka is the endpoint of the archer upgrade line, so the impact is limited.
However, once we extend the game into the Future Era, the result becomes somewhat unrealistic — humanoid robots armed with rifles can shoot as far as multiple rocket launchers.

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1. Redefining the Upgrade Path with Modern Warfare in Mind​

In modern warfare, the natural successor to the Bazooka is the Javelin anti-tank missile.
Today, however, even the Javelin is increasingly being replaced by cheap, small combat drones that serve as the new backbone of anti-armor tactics.


A more realistic upgrade path would therefore look like this:

• Bazooka → Javelin → Drone Unit

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2. Helicopters vs. Modern Tanks – The Balance Shift​

Recent battlefields show that helicopters no longer dominate tanks unchallenged:

• Helicopters are formidable only while armed with missiles.
• Once their ammunition is depleted, they become highly vulnerable to modern tanks’ integrated anti-air systems and often have no choice but to retreat.

This reflects an important reality: helicopters should not be portrayed as unlimited firepower platforms, but rather as conditional units whose effectiveness depends heavily on ammunition and positioning.

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3. Redefining the “Anti-Tank Zone” Promotion​

To reflect this, I propose redefining the “Anti-Tank Zone” promotion:

• Archer-line and helicopter units would be given a single missile slot.
• If the unit does not act and instead fortifies (Hold Position), a missile would automatically be supplied on the following turn (via Lua scripting).
• The AI logic remains simple: “if a missile is available, use it.”

This would not only improve realism, but also give helicopters and archer-line units a tactical reason to fortify, prepare, and strike, enabling more authentic hit-and-run scenarios.

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4. Natural Progression into Drone Units​

Drone units are also credible successors in this design.
At close range, they may rely on electronic warfare or signal attacks, while still using missiles when fortified — a mechanic that fits naturally with modern drone warfare.
Visually, implementation would be straightforward with a single drone unit model.

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5. Upcoming Future Era Experiments​

I am also in the process of rebuilding the Future Era mod from the ground up, introducing several experimental features:

1. Orbital strike weapons and a new series of Future Era missiles.
2. A dedicated anti-tank missile promotion system.
3. Offensive drone units: beyond small machine drones, a full-fledged airship-type drone unit designed to detect submarines.
   
   • Destroyers, in turn, will receive strong bonuses against drones and helicopters, reinforcing their naval counter role.
4. Additional systemic changes will follow, once the mod reaches release.

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6. Conclusion​

• The archer line’s range should remain limited to 2 tiles.
• Instead, its future progression into missiles and drone units offers both realism and engaging gameplay.
• While VP already allows certain exceptions (e.g., Longbowmen), I believe that a reality-grounded redesign makes more sense when expanding into the Future Era.

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I would very much appreciate the community’s thoughts and feedback on this proposal, both regarding the redesign of the Bazooka line and the broader Future Era experiments.

 

[Tekamthi]

helicopters should not be portrayed as unlimited firepower platforms, but rather as conditional units whose effectiveness depends heavily on ammunition and positioning.

It's long been my hope that a full helicopter line could be developed with interesting and different, and AI-compatible, functionality from all the others. There are models available on CF

Archer-line and helicopter units would be given a single missile slot.

it's difficult for me to imagine how this would play, ie all the subtleties that would come from having a major paradigm shift in later combat like this. For satisfying thematic play, I think there'd need to a restriction on where/when they can reload ammo, and in turn this likely confers advantage to a human player

If the unit does not act and instead fortifies (Hold Position), a missile would automatically be supplied on the following turn (via Lua scripting).

This thought does hit somewhat on target to how this ammo mechanism might work, but it strikes me as somewhat simplistic on its own -- on the one hand such an implementation might be best for AI compatibility, but would this add fun to the game? There's not much gameplay decisions added other than an extra fortify motivation -- my imagination on this point leads to thoughts that positioning somewhere where it makes sense to resupply should be another restriction, and the home economy situation should be considered, but even with these two added factors, the decision increases in complexity perhaps beyond what the AI can reasonably optimize.

Previously, I've floated the idea that there should be some kind of missile factory building, effectively enabling this style of reload on the existing missile units, nevermind making more of them. Lukewarm response iirc. I'd be interested in a mod mod like this, but I'm guessing the mainstream playerbase will consider it too much change

On a related note, past discussion suggests there are some in the community that find it a little anachronistic that bazooka model has such long range, and should instead be some kind of mortar or light mobile artillery instead... Maybe eventually becoming a drone line as suggested

 

[CAYM]

It's long been my hope that a full helicopter line could be developed with interesting and different, and AI-compatible, functionality from all the others. There are models available on CF


it's difficult for me to imagine how this would play, ie all the subtleties that would come from having a major paradigm shift in later combat like this. For satisfying thematic play, I think there'd need to a restriction on where/when they can reload ammo, and in turn this likely confers advantage to a human player


This thought does hit somewhat on target to how this ammo mechanism might work, but it strikes me as somewhat simplistic on its own -- on the one hand such an implementation might be best for AI compatibility, but would this add fun to the game? There's not much gameplay decisions added other than an extra fortify motivation -- my imagination on this point leads to thoughts that positioning somewhere where it makes sense to resupply should be another restriction, and the home economy situation should be considered, but even with these two added factors, the decision increases in complexity perhaps beyond what the AI can reasonably optimize.

Previously, I've floated the idea that there should be some kind of missile factory building, effectively enabling this style of reload on the existing missile units, nevermind making more of them. Lukewarm response iirc. I'd be interested in a mod mod like this, but I'm guessing the mainstream playerbase will consider it too much change

On a related note, past discussion suggests there are some in the community that find it a little anachronistic that bazooka model has such long range, and should instead be some kind of mortar or light mobile artillery instead... Maybe eventually becoming a drone line as suggested

I’ve been exploring a way to make fortification and positioning matter more while keeping AI behavior solid. The core idea is:

1) Fortify + short-range missiles​

• When a unit fortifies, it still gets the usual defensive edge against anti-tank threats. Because the AI evaluates that as a raw combat-strength gain, it will naturally consider fortifying a “good move.”
• Add a short-range missile (range 3) that the unit can fire.
  
  • It can hit infantry and general targets, but the base power is low.
  • The anti-armor bonus comes only via promotions (i.e., no free hard counter baked into the missile).
  • Give the missile bonus damage from Forest/Hill tiles to reward taking and holding strong terrain while fortified.
• Net effect: more tactical variety—players fight for good ground, fortify, then poke with a weaker but longer poke; the true spike vs armor is opt-in via promotions.

2) Early airship line (reworked)​

• This line started life in my old “airship” add-on. I briefly set the unit to DOMAIN_HOVER, but that path is missing in the DLL, so I reverted to DOMAIN_LAND.
• To let it function like a modern ground counter without breaking rules, I mirror the missile concept:
  
  • Land role: anti-tank missile (range 3).
  • Naval role: air-dropped torpedo (also range 3).
• To encourage AI fortify behavior on this chassis, give a recon-style vision bonus while fortified. The AI “sees more,” which nudges it to fortify more often.

3) Helicopters vs. archers—slotting and pacing​

• Helicopters get two missile slots, basic archer-line gets one.
  
  • Helis spike harder on the opening blows, but over a long war they don’t outpace archers by default.
  • Helis still take anti-armor promotions, so they’re not useless into tanks—but like VP, they feel like a situational counter rather than a universal solution.
• This keeps the modern-war flavor while preserving classic ranged play.

Notes on implementation (brief)​

• Missiles can be implemented as guided-missile clones with target restrictions enforced via promotions + Lua (e.g., “submarines only,” “bonus vs. armor”).
• AI handles these fine when targets are visible; the fortify-vision buff helps with that.
• Attack range stays conservative (3), so we don’t power-creep core ranged lines.

I’ve only recently settled on this approach. Once my code pass is done, I plan to fold this into a refreshed Future Era release. Feedback on balance, AI interaction, or theming is very welcome!

 

[Lumpyacidfish]

I think you are too hyper fixated on some things. War in ukraine is 100% not going to define the future of all war because it is simply a small slice of time in one area on earth. History is still playing out just take some creative liberties like that orbital strike you have planned, I think that's cool. Drones are cool too but because the future has not played out yet in regards to bazooka changes, make sure its balanced first you are not limited to historical accuracy now.

 

[Gen.Washington]

Speaking from irl infantry experience here’s what have to say.
The war in Ukraine is a war of attrition between two relatively undertrained and underfunded armies. I don’t believe the fighting in Ukraine is indicative of all future conflicts.
Drones are good for taking out targets of opportunity but in active combat when infantry comes face to face with enemy armor the fastest and most reliable way to destroy a tank is still with a rocket launcher, wether that be a javelin, at-4 or something else.
In future conflicts with first rate armies we are going to see that anti-drone technology is being developed faster than we think, and helicopter gunships, artillery, and the simple infantryman still rule the battlefield.

That all being said for the point of I don’t think we should redo a unit line in vox because of the war in Ukraine.

 

[CAYM]

Yes. I was trying to reflect reality, so I wrote some code.

I deleted it because I thought it was just for self-satisfaction.

It's also fun to just enjoy it. The more units you have, the more work Lua has to do.

I'll either mentally convince myself I'm firing missiles from afar, or I'll make it with my CAYM Tweaks later.

For now, the future mod I'm releasing this time won't include any related features.