Skajaquada
Crazy Engineer
- Joined
- Mar 4, 2007
- Messages
- 134
Just thought I'd clean this OP up. As of now the work isn't really that active but you never know, Civ-games I can usually take year-long breaks with and then come back. I've also released the units and some extra stuff like the XML for the civilizations and some LUA-files, here http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=449649 so that anyone can do whatever they want with them.
Overview
It's really suppose to be this take on WH40K like Civ-games are "takes" on history, so the technology-tree will encompass the known eras in WH40K through Age of Progress, Dark Age of Technology, Age of Strife, Crusade Era, Heresy Era, Age of Imperium and Far Future with techs like "Warp Engine", "Las-Weaponry" and "Secondary Heart". The early units would then be the Imperial Guard and later on you'll build Space Marines and Chaos-units. The Orks would be barbarians and Eldar could be city-states. Then the Tyranids would be part of some late-game event. The yield-names would also be switched, most notably Culture would be Dominance and instead of culture-buildings it would be things like Titans and whatnot. The water would also be space and all the boats would be space-ships. The playable civilizations would then be the 18 original Primarchs and their respective Legion, again sort of like starting with Washington in the normal Civ-game.
Features
To keep it simple here are some features I was thinking of getting to making:
* Make the Ork-barbarians seem more Orky like how they're suppose to breed by releasing spores in battle. This is actually done more or less. I just wrote some simple LUA-script to store the starting-position of all barbarians, then when they die or fight I can do whatever either creating new barbarians, baribarian-camps around the starting-position.
* Sorcery, it probably wouldn't be too hard to implement. I think the promotion-system could be changed so there's a timer on some promotions that sounds like spells. Then the sorcery-units could have a timer built-in like a mana-pool for when they're allowed to use the spell-promotion. The UI could also easily be modded to show this meter. I think the fun challenge though would be to make it appear as a new system keeping the original promotions the way they are for wargear for example.
* Turn-dial on units and make the direction a unit is being attacked from matter. I think the actual UI could be borrowed from the bombard-code. I just need to always have a one-tile radius and then some quick function to make the unit turn towards that tile. There are then functions for the unit-objects that can be used in the combat-event that says what direction a unit is facing.
* Fear/morale, it seems somewhat appropriate for WH40K to have some sort of morale-system. One easy way I guess is giving all units a meter that decreases as the unit loses combat or just fights units with a high fear-spread value. Then when the morale-meter decreases beyond a certain point the unit becomes routed and is uncontrollable and randomly moves a tile every turn.
* Corruption, I don't know really... It could be fun if the normal units could be "upgraded" to Chaos-units at some point. Maybe fighting Daemons and other corrupted units could increase a corruption-meter though the ruins-improvement could have a chance of spreading the original corruption. It seems very much like WH40K, some marine is sent to investigate an ancient ruin and get corrupted by some shrine in there. Also, though it'll probably require the DLL I think it could be fun to have the Ruinous Powers spread like religion in Civ 4, or just have it as a yield that lets you build Chaos-units.
* Tyranids, they simply appear late-game to shake things up. Perhaps it's easy to add some checking like if they clear an entire island (planet) it'll spawn even more Tyranids on that planet making it a sort of incentive to stop them.
* Eldar, it's still pretty much a question-mark what interesting thing I can do about them. I think in this they would really fit as city-states AI-wise, that is not expanding and just making strange requests. However the rest I think it could be fun to shake up a little.
Download-link:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=449649
Original OP:
Overview
It's really suppose to be this take on WH40K like Civ-games are "takes" on history, so the technology-tree will encompass the known eras in WH40K through Age of Progress, Dark Age of Technology, Age of Strife, Crusade Era, Heresy Era, Age of Imperium and Far Future with techs like "Warp Engine", "Las-Weaponry" and "Secondary Heart". The early units would then be the Imperial Guard and later on you'll build Space Marines and Chaos-units. The Orks would be barbarians and Eldar could be city-states. Then the Tyranids would be part of some late-game event. The yield-names would also be switched, most notably Culture would be Dominance and instead of culture-buildings it would be things like Titans and whatnot. The water would also be space and all the boats would be space-ships. The playable civilizations would then be the 18 original Primarchs and their respective Legion, again sort of like starting with Washington in the normal Civ-game.
Features
To keep it simple here are some features I was thinking of getting to making:
* Make the Ork-barbarians seem more Orky like how they're suppose to breed by releasing spores in battle. This is actually done more or less. I just wrote some simple LUA-script to store the starting-position of all barbarians, then when they die or fight I can do whatever either creating new barbarians, baribarian-camps around the starting-position.
* Sorcery, it probably wouldn't be too hard to implement. I think the promotion-system could be changed so there's a timer on some promotions that sounds like spells. Then the sorcery-units could have a timer built-in like a mana-pool for when they're allowed to use the spell-promotion. The UI could also easily be modded to show this meter. I think the fun challenge though would be to make it appear as a new system keeping the original promotions the way they are for wargear for example.
* Turn-dial on units and make the direction a unit is being attacked from matter. I think the actual UI could be borrowed from the bombard-code. I just need to always have a one-tile radius and then some quick function to make the unit turn towards that tile. There are then functions for the unit-objects that can be used in the combat-event that says what direction a unit is facing.
* Fear/morale, it seems somewhat appropriate for WH40K to have some sort of morale-system. One easy way I guess is giving all units a meter that decreases as the unit loses combat or just fights units with a high fear-spread value. Then when the morale-meter decreases beyond a certain point the unit becomes routed and is uncontrollable and randomly moves a tile every turn.
* Corruption, I don't know really... It could be fun if the normal units could be "upgraded" to Chaos-units at some point. Maybe fighting Daemons and other corrupted units could increase a corruption-meter though the ruins-improvement could have a chance of spreading the original corruption. It seems very much like WH40K, some marine is sent to investigate an ancient ruin and get corrupted by some shrine in there. Also, though it'll probably require the DLL I think it could be fun to have the Ruinous Powers spread like religion in Civ 4, or just have it as a yield that lets you build Chaos-units.
* Tyranids, they simply appear late-game to shake things up. Perhaps it's easy to add some checking like if they clear an entire island (planet) it'll spawn even more Tyranids on that planet making it a sort of incentive to stop them.
* Eldar, it's still pretty much a question-mark what interesting thing I can do about them. I think in this they would really fit as city-states AI-wise, that is not expanding and just making strange requests. However the rest I think it could be fun to shake up a little.
Download-link:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=449649
Original OP:
Spoiler :
This might be a long read so I've attached some pictures of what I've done to keep you interested. They're all from in-game except the last one that I'll talk a little about later.
Background
What I do is that I take units from Dawn Of War 2, assemble them with their mod-tools, export them to 3DS Max, load and save the animations into the scene (note all frames in a text-file), put together textures from the different maps that gets exported from DoW2. Then I import them to Civ 5 the same way as everyone else.
I was thinking it could be a mod where you play as one of the original 20 Primarchs commanding their respective legion. It could be fluff-accurate in the same sense Civ is historically accurate, so there's no need to invent a scenario like a Warp Storm. I was thinking it would play like a normal Civ-game where you start with a Tech Priest as Settler.
I think it's the best way because we don't have models for all the races. I also don't really like scenarios. Then the Orks can be the original barbarians, the Tyranids can be the super-barbarians showing up later in the game. The Eldar can be city-states acting like city-states (acting like Eldar
).
I was also thinking the Legions wouldn't be aligned to Chaos or so, it would be more of choices in the tech-tree, which is what the final attached picture is about. They're assembled based on the versions of the Power Armour (http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Power_Armour) with the top left to right being the Mark 4 "Imperial Maximus Suit", Mark 5 "Heresy Armor", Mark 6 "Corvus Armor", Mark 7 "Aquila (Eagle) Armor" and Mark 8 "Errant Armor". Then the bottom ones are Chaos Marines.
It might need some explaining, I saw this Space Wolves veteran-model once with a Chaos Marine-backpack, though that link doesn't really confirm it, I've since imagined the pre-heresy Space Marine looked more like the current Chaos Space Marines. Then the Chaos Legions simply weren't equipped with the newest version of the Power Armour since they were rebelling at the time. Then instead of improving their armour they simply put more fetishes on it to appease the Chaos Gods.
Anyway, those models would be the base for units you get advancing through the tech-tree. It's also fitting since Chaos doesn't have Terminators in DoW2 except a hero-unit that one branch (or an entire tech-tree) would be about advancing better armour and more powerful weapons, while another would be about Chaos. Then it's also fitting the Chaos-weapons look a little older and modified to work better in melee.
Help
What do I need help with? I'm a programmer by profession so I don't need help with that and as I hope the attachments show I don't need help with the models. Though anyone is free to help me with that busy-work if you want to be a part of this. I can also work my way around Photoshop (it does says "Civilization 5" on the Ultramarines-banner
) so making icons and loading-screens won't be a problem.
What I would really appreciate help with are those tiny pictures for techs and such. As I said I can probably Photoshop together a loading screen and icons, but I can't draw. I'm thinking there's just not enough pictures to Google from for even a small tech-tree. So can anyone draw WH40K-pictures that would fit in Civ 5? Perhaps I should visit a WH40K-site, though I might do that after a more clear design has been established.
Also if anyone is good with 3DS Max I think it would be really nice with units that I haven't just taken from another game. Like a normal over-sized Titan, or a Space-Race victory to assemble the Emperor Titan
One more thing: Music. I can't produce music either, I suppose I can use the background music from any WH40K-game, but I think it would be fun with our own. Just if anyone's able and want to leave their mark.
Tech-tree
Perhaps the main reason I'm posting is to get some ideas for the tech-tree. I was reading another thread about multiple tech-trees in a mod and it got me thinking it could be cool with one advancing the Adeptus Mechanicus, getting better Power Armours and weapons. Then another perhaps advancing research in the geenseed of the Space Marines (each tech is an additional organ
), so just advancing the former leads to Imperial Guard with better weapons and tanks, but you need both to field the mighty Space Marines. Then of-course one tech-tree advancing the psykers, leading to Daemons and whatnot.
Another distinct tech-tree I was thinking about, since it's incredible easy to move models around between units and change formation, would be one advancing combat tactics or what to call it. For example advancing all the other tech-trees could lead to pretty uniform squads with ineffective formations, these techs could make that interesting, attaching veterans, dynamic squads with different outfit and better formations. Though I'm not a military-buff or very knowledgeable in WH40K-lore I've pretty much no idea what should be in there, except that one technology is forming the Chapters (leading perhaps to foundling chapter sending their elite home to the Chapter House, different textures representing them is also dead-easy).
Misc
I've also read a thread about layered maps. As you might have guessed I'm hoping this mod will be a little on the complex side, I think it could fit nicely if each Legion started on his own world (perhaps non-playable IG civilizations could populate the bigger maps as well). With the help of scripts and a nice picture, it might even be possible to Virus Bomb a planet locking it down. Then naturally to justify it, if the Tyranids remove all units from a planet their strength increase while still locking the planet.
I'm planning to look into things like that now but it would be nice to know if it's impossible, or rather what's possible? It would be nice with ideas, thinking on what can be done. Like could we have a morale-system, where say if you end a turn with a unit next to another there's a chance the weaker unit will automatically move to flea the next turn? Can you even add columns to the units like "morale" that can be accessed in LUA? Another thing naturally I was thinking about was how spells could work, if it's possible to do the normal slowing of units and such (reduce their moves naturally).
As I said I'm planning to look into things like that now. I don't really need help with the busy work, I'm just interested what anyone's thoughts about it are. Maybe the best help would be reminding about actual game-mechanics that remind about this so I can look into that if they've got scripts in the LUA-files.
Terrain and effects
I'm also planning to make some custom of these. I'm dying to use the tool Werkzeug again or similar for nice textures and normal-maps. I was thinking mostly about just making the textures a little darker, but also nice ones that would make the entire map look like a city-scape covering the entire planet. However I couldn't get the Nexus terrain-editor to work and it seem no-one can yet, so it'll have to wait.
About effects, I might as well ask, will we ever get a tool to make custom-effects, will we have to learn to just use the built-in ones, or can some existing program produce the needed files now? I suppose what I'm most interested in is if anyone know or can guess just how the effects will be added. I feel reluctant to begin making the new models not knowing if they will all need a marker with a special name to show where the effect is added.
Units
There's one thing about the units that's pretty unrelated to the rest. What we have to work with are alot of idle-, melee-, crouch-, aim-, fire-, throw- and reload-animations. There's a lot to use, in-fact there's too much to use. Should fortify be the units aiming or should they be crouching? Should the normal attacks always be melee and bombard be ranged attacks? Then should city-attacks be throwing grenades and shooting or just one?
When I did the Orks I had the aim-animation for when the units fortify and crouch when the all-melee (e.g. two-handed axe) units fortify. I then figured for the rest that the crouch-animation was probably best for all, if someone bombards you or shoots you from afar standing still aiming won't help, but crouching and it looks like you're taking cover behind rocks and whatnot. Of-course if the default attack is ranged I suppose aiming will increase you chances when they advance on you.
The Imperial Guards are a little different, they've got some that stand still and shoot while others shoot as combat ready then run in and stabs with their bayonets. It really looks nice, but I'm thinking that completely separating the attacks to make all normal attacking melee and all bombard is shooting would be best for a WH40K-mod. I'm not really familiar with the Table Top-game but this would really help separating the damages between "melee" and "ranged". Then the attack-city can always be throw grenade and ranged attack for a little variation. I also suppose some combat ready-animations could be shooting for variation as well.
I've also got a video here if you want to see some animation:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSLgSInlnLw
It's pretty laggy because Fraps was giving trouble, but it actually runs pretty smooth with all those units, even though they're 4000 or so polygons each. Another thing that you might note is that the units are a little twitchy, it's because i reduced the frames in the idle-animations without any further processing. The next batch and I'll make extremely short idle-animations going some 10 frames or so, then play the same 10 backwards to make it always start exactly where it ends for a smooth idleness. Shortening the idle-animation seemed to reduce this bug that their attack-animations wouldn't start, but it's not gone completely.
One last thing about units, what do you think of the textures? I know the pre-heresy Space Marines for each Legion have very differently colored Power Armours from the current ones. It doesn't really support this gradual transition I was talking about. I was also thinking about adjusting the colors a little to fit with in Civ 5 and choosing freely between pre-Heresy and current ones so all civilizations will look distinct, I suppose it's al-right. Then also the foundling Chapters for each legion could be a distinct pattern that goes right over the middle like the Novamarines with one half the original color. Of-course Apothecaries and sergeants have their special colors as well. I'm thinking this since the colors will essentially be the team-colors they need to be distinct, or am I taking something away from the fluff?
Conclusion
Anway, I think that's that. There's much to discuss and decide yet. I'm not even sure about the name, I was really close to calling it "Beyond the Warhammer", but I don't know, something about Primarchs? Project Primarch? Then someone was shouting "Remember the Primarchs! They watch over us still!"
Background
What I do is that I take units from Dawn Of War 2, assemble them with their mod-tools, export them to 3DS Max, load and save the animations into the scene (note all frames in a text-file), put together textures from the different maps that gets exported from DoW2. Then I import them to Civ 5 the same way as everyone else.
I was thinking it could be a mod where you play as one of the original 20 Primarchs commanding their respective legion. It could be fluff-accurate in the same sense Civ is historically accurate, so there's no need to invent a scenario like a Warp Storm. I was thinking it would play like a normal Civ-game where you start with a Tech Priest as Settler.
I think it's the best way because we don't have models for all the races. I also don't really like scenarios. Then the Orks can be the original barbarians, the Tyranids can be the super-barbarians showing up later in the game. The Eldar can be city-states acting like city-states (acting like Eldar

I was also thinking the Legions wouldn't be aligned to Chaos or so, it would be more of choices in the tech-tree, which is what the final attached picture is about. They're assembled based on the versions of the Power Armour (http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Power_Armour) with the top left to right being the Mark 4 "Imperial Maximus Suit", Mark 5 "Heresy Armor", Mark 6 "Corvus Armor", Mark 7 "Aquila (Eagle) Armor" and Mark 8 "Errant Armor". Then the bottom ones are Chaos Marines.
It might need some explaining, I saw this Space Wolves veteran-model once with a Chaos Marine-backpack, though that link doesn't really confirm it, I've since imagined the pre-heresy Space Marine looked more like the current Chaos Space Marines. Then the Chaos Legions simply weren't equipped with the newest version of the Power Armour since they were rebelling at the time. Then instead of improving their armour they simply put more fetishes on it to appease the Chaos Gods.
Anyway, those models would be the base for units you get advancing through the tech-tree. It's also fitting since Chaos doesn't have Terminators in DoW2 except a hero-unit that one branch (or an entire tech-tree) would be about advancing better armour and more powerful weapons, while another would be about Chaos. Then it's also fitting the Chaos-weapons look a little older and modified to work better in melee.
Help
What do I need help with? I'm a programmer by profession so I don't need help with that and as I hope the attachments show I don't need help with the models. Though anyone is free to help me with that busy-work if you want to be a part of this. I can also work my way around Photoshop (it does says "Civilization 5" on the Ultramarines-banner

What I would really appreciate help with are those tiny pictures for techs and such. As I said I can probably Photoshop together a loading screen and icons, but I can't draw. I'm thinking there's just not enough pictures to Google from for even a small tech-tree. So can anyone draw WH40K-pictures that would fit in Civ 5? Perhaps I should visit a WH40K-site, though I might do that after a more clear design has been established.
Also if anyone is good with 3DS Max I think it would be really nice with units that I haven't just taken from another game. Like a normal over-sized Titan, or a Space-Race victory to assemble the Emperor Titan

One more thing: Music. I can't produce music either, I suppose I can use the background music from any WH40K-game, but I think it would be fun with our own. Just if anyone's able and want to leave their mark.
Tech-tree
Perhaps the main reason I'm posting is to get some ideas for the tech-tree. I was reading another thread about multiple tech-trees in a mod and it got me thinking it could be cool with one advancing the Adeptus Mechanicus, getting better Power Armours and weapons. Then another perhaps advancing research in the geenseed of the Space Marines (each tech is an additional organ

Another distinct tech-tree I was thinking about, since it's incredible easy to move models around between units and change formation, would be one advancing combat tactics or what to call it. For example advancing all the other tech-trees could lead to pretty uniform squads with ineffective formations, these techs could make that interesting, attaching veterans, dynamic squads with different outfit and better formations. Though I'm not a military-buff or very knowledgeable in WH40K-lore I've pretty much no idea what should be in there, except that one technology is forming the Chapters (leading perhaps to foundling chapter sending their elite home to the Chapter House, different textures representing them is also dead-easy).
Misc
I've also read a thread about layered maps. As you might have guessed I'm hoping this mod will be a little on the complex side, I think it could fit nicely if each Legion started on his own world (perhaps non-playable IG civilizations could populate the bigger maps as well). With the help of scripts and a nice picture, it might even be possible to Virus Bomb a planet locking it down. Then naturally to justify it, if the Tyranids remove all units from a planet their strength increase while still locking the planet.
I'm planning to look into things like that now but it would be nice to know if it's impossible, or rather what's possible? It would be nice with ideas, thinking on what can be done. Like could we have a morale-system, where say if you end a turn with a unit next to another there's a chance the weaker unit will automatically move to flea the next turn? Can you even add columns to the units like "morale" that can be accessed in LUA? Another thing naturally I was thinking about was how spells could work, if it's possible to do the normal slowing of units and such (reduce their moves naturally).
As I said I'm planning to look into things like that now. I don't really need help with the busy work, I'm just interested what anyone's thoughts about it are. Maybe the best help would be reminding about actual game-mechanics that remind about this so I can look into that if they've got scripts in the LUA-files.
Terrain and effects
I'm also planning to make some custom of these. I'm dying to use the tool Werkzeug again or similar for nice textures and normal-maps. I was thinking mostly about just making the textures a little darker, but also nice ones that would make the entire map look like a city-scape covering the entire planet. However I couldn't get the Nexus terrain-editor to work and it seem no-one can yet, so it'll have to wait.
About effects, I might as well ask, will we ever get a tool to make custom-effects, will we have to learn to just use the built-in ones, or can some existing program produce the needed files now? I suppose what I'm most interested in is if anyone know or can guess just how the effects will be added. I feel reluctant to begin making the new models not knowing if they will all need a marker with a special name to show where the effect is added.
Units
There's one thing about the units that's pretty unrelated to the rest. What we have to work with are alot of idle-, melee-, crouch-, aim-, fire-, throw- and reload-animations. There's a lot to use, in-fact there's too much to use. Should fortify be the units aiming or should they be crouching? Should the normal attacks always be melee and bombard be ranged attacks? Then should city-attacks be throwing grenades and shooting or just one?
When I did the Orks I had the aim-animation for when the units fortify and crouch when the all-melee (e.g. two-handed axe) units fortify. I then figured for the rest that the crouch-animation was probably best for all, if someone bombards you or shoots you from afar standing still aiming won't help, but crouching and it looks like you're taking cover behind rocks and whatnot. Of-course if the default attack is ranged I suppose aiming will increase you chances when they advance on you.
The Imperial Guards are a little different, they've got some that stand still and shoot while others shoot as combat ready then run in and stabs with their bayonets. It really looks nice, but I'm thinking that completely separating the attacks to make all normal attacking melee and all bombard is shooting would be best for a WH40K-mod. I'm not really familiar with the Table Top-game but this would really help separating the damages between "melee" and "ranged". Then the attack-city can always be throw grenade and ranged attack for a little variation. I also suppose some combat ready-animations could be shooting for variation as well.
I've also got a video here if you want to see some animation:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSLgSInlnLw
It's pretty laggy because Fraps was giving trouble, but it actually runs pretty smooth with all those units, even though they're 4000 or so polygons each. Another thing that you might note is that the units are a little twitchy, it's because i reduced the frames in the idle-animations without any further processing. The next batch and I'll make extremely short idle-animations going some 10 frames or so, then play the same 10 backwards to make it always start exactly where it ends for a smooth idleness. Shortening the idle-animation seemed to reduce this bug that their attack-animations wouldn't start, but it's not gone completely.
One last thing about units, what do you think of the textures? I know the pre-heresy Space Marines for each Legion have very differently colored Power Armours from the current ones. It doesn't really support this gradual transition I was talking about. I was also thinking about adjusting the colors a little to fit with in Civ 5 and choosing freely between pre-Heresy and current ones so all civilizations will look distinct, I suppose it's al-right. Then also the foundling Chapters for each legion could be a distinct pattern that goes right over the middle like the Novamarines with one half the original color. Of-course Apothecaries and sergeants have their special colors as well. I'm thinking this since the colors will essentially be the team-colors they need to be distinct, or am I taking something away from the fluff?

Conclusion
Anway, I think that's that. There's much to discuss and decide yet. I'm not even sure about the name, I was really close to calling it "Beyond the Warhammer", but I don't know, something about Primarchs? Project Primarch? Then someone was shouting "Remember the Primarchs! They watch over us still!"
