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Removing atom bomb and Nuke missile from Civ5

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by zarnivop, Dec 17, 2015.

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What do you think of AI nuking in Civ 5?

Poll closed Jan 17, 2016.
  1. It doesn't bother me at all

    36 vote(s)
    76.6%
  2. It is somewhat irritating

    2 vote(s)
    4.3%
  3. It's BAD, but I manage.

    2 vote(s)
    4.3%
  4. I HATE IT!!!

    7 vote(s)
    14.9%
  1. zarnivop

    zarnivop Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2015
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    21
    That's not true anymore. The Hetz (Arrow) system, developed (mostly) in Israel claims consistent success in doing just that. Our American partners are happy with it, too.

    I really recommend that you read Cresson Kearney's "Nuclear Survival Skills". It was written by a doctor that participated in US nuke tests.
    To summer, Chernobyl (and Fukushima) scenarios are only reproducible by repeatedly nuking the same place. That laid aside, TWO WEEKS after nuking the radiation level allows half day work in the open, every day. Radiation level start high (not at time=0 though, it takes between 1 and 8 hours for the fallout to descend from the mushroom cloud) and decrease exponentially, halving every 7 hours.
     
  2. LordBalkoth

    LordBalkoth Prince

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2014
    Messages:
    525
    I find this hilarious (in a non-mean way) as I rush to pass non-proliferation when doing a Domination game. I don't care about using nukes of my own very much, but I *really* don't want to be nuked repeatedly by the AI.

    Well, Mobile SAMs aren't the end of the world in the first place...and if you're relying solely on planes then yeah, that's a problem. But Rocket Artillery with Mobile SAMs for AA/melee? I can conquer the land with those two units alone. Add in a Fighter or three for vision/AA/sweeps AA and Bombers to pick off units (130 ground attack with 10 range vs 80-90ish for Rocket Artillery with 3-4 range) or help bombard cities? Those four units are pure gold.

    I'm actually tempted to go back to your Ethopia save and see I can pull off a Domination Victory. I don't know if I can, though -- basically you want to be either ahead on tech or have a swathe of lands already conquered at that point (or both!). The problem isn't conquering the AI eventually, the problem is doing it before the AI launches.

    Well, they're NOT his citizens any more! DUH! YOU'RE SO STUPID!

    Uh...

    A, most units explicitly already show multiple troops. The Atomic Bomb is one of few exceptions because, y'know, you're LITERALLY dropping one Atomic Bomb. That's kind of the point of nuclear weapons, you don't need to drop hundreds on your target with squadrons of aircraft.

    B, an aircraft carrier (at least the US ones) are over 1,000 feet long and can have 5,000+ people on board. A Missile Cruiser is still 400ish people.

    C, keep in mind the difference between personnel and equipment. If (and I'm basically making these numbers up, don't read too much into the exact values) an Infantry unit represents 1,000 soldiers...a Rocket Artillery unit does NOT represent 1,000 MLRS units. Probably more like 10-50 pieces with 3ish crew per piece. Mechanized Infantry (like the M2 Bradley) might cost 3 million dollars per vehicle...while a single nuclear submarine (like this one) might cost 2.7 BILLION dollars. In other words, you could buy about 1,000 M2 Bradleys for the cost of 1 Nuclear Submarine. And even in the Ancient Era, a single Trieme had 200ish sailors in addition to the cost of the ship itself.
     
  3. Sclb

    Sclb Emperor

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2015
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    1,283
    I usually build 1-2 nukes just to scare AI into not nuking me like MAD. It doesn't always work, I almost never nuke the AI since I hate having to scrub fallout and would only consider it if they're building SS parts.
     
  4. LordBalkoth

    LordBalkoth Prince

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2014
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    Uh, do you have any actual reason to consider this works at all? The message for the nukes (They fear our great might!) can also show up through simply having a massive military.

    Logically it would make sense...but that doesn't mean the AI considers it at all.
     
  5. kaltorak

    kaltorak Emperor

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2009
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    Location:
    Madrid
    I usually never reach that point. But, I'd say I hate it. I don't like to play civ just for winning. For example, if I capture a city I want that city to be a good addition for my empire. I like to become powerful more than to win the game. Nuclear bombing sounds counterproductive.
     
  6. stormtrooper412

    stormtrooper412 Peacemongering Turtlesaur

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    Except it might not. But a single nuke *will* cause all of them to switch into "Afraid" status. However, it won't protect you from an invasion every time, I've had messages like "I know we have no chance but we declare war nonetheless"
     
  7. LordBalkoth

    LordBalkoth Prince

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2014
    Messages:
    525
    If we're being very technical, it will actually cause them to switch to Afraid OR Guarded/Hostile (forget which of the two it is offhand). Afraid is only if the Civ likes you (or maybe neutralish).

    I think the point we're making is that we're not even trying to avoid an invasion per se...we just want to keep the nukes from flying. In the real world, a major reason for this is governments say "Hey, we'd be insane to nuke X because X would nuke us right back." But Civ doesn't have the same kind of MAD, as I've previously mentioned in this thread.
     
  8. beetle

    beetle Deity

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    Yes, for sure, the part about an AI backing off. If you are already at war, I don’t think building a nuke makes the AI reconsider nuking you.

    Sure, but building a single nuke is so much easier than building a massive military!
     
  9. LordBalkoth

    LordBalkoth Prince

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    Dec 7, 2014
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    Yes, I'm talking about the latter. The way he phrased it sounded like he thought HIM having nukes would stop the AI from using nukes (because it didn't want to get nuked right back). A way of saying "Let's keep this conventional, please." But I've never seen an indication that matters to the AI.
     
  10. whoward69

    whoward69 DLL Minion

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    May 30, 2011
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    (CvMilitaryAI.cpp)

    Once at war, and assuming the AI has nukes, ...
    If you've nuked the AI, the AI will nuke you.
    If the AI has already nuked you, it will continue to do so.
    Otherwise it's a straight dice roll against the AI's USE_NUKES flavour that decides if the AI nukes you or not - there is no consideration as to whether or not you have nukes and/or the size of your stockpile.
     
  11. GenjiKhan

    GenjiKhan Emperor

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    Apr 29, 2011
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    1,117
    Maybe this "SDI Defense" could be a National Wonder, unlocked by Robotics Technology, that requires a very late game defence building, such as a Bomb Shelter
     
  12. kaspergm

    kaspergm Deity

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    I hate it, thankfully it's easy to mod out. I think there is a "No nukes" mod on the Steam workshop if you search for it.
     
  13. kamex

    kamex Emperor

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    So, for those who hate nukes, whats your option of the immersion of a giant death robot, or laser blaster anti-alien super soldiers parachuting across the planet? Just curious...
     
  14. KrikkitTwo

    KrikkitTwo Immortal

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    I definitely Would like a more "realistic" nukes... ie ones with MAD

    1-Nukes only target cities.. but do more massive damage to the cities (ie fallout causes unhappiness, costs maintenance? units can't heal if adjacent to fallout, Missiles=100% loss of all buildings, and all but 1 pop, 75% for Atomic bomb 75% of cities.. adjacent/nearby units mostly just take % damage rather than dying..non nuclear units in city destroyed though)

    2-Nukes DON'T need uranium... they just need a Nuclear Plant (like a Archaeologist needs a University).. moderate cost but cannot be bought... 1 free atomic bomb once you complete Manhattan project (even if you don't have nuclear Fission yet)...this allows a massive nuclear stockpile to be built up. (and makes the GDR usable if you have more Uranium than you do cities)

    3-Nukes survive a Nuclear attack (Atomic bombs have a Chance of surviving, Missiles guaranteed)

    4- Missiles have a range of 40, Atomic Bomb has a range of 12
     
  15. darkskies

    darkskies Warlord

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    When I first played I hated nukes. As I got experienced I found they added interest and incentive (like going after Gandhi before he gets them). Now for those who don't like them it would be nice if there was a game option to turn them off for you since mods keep you from getting achievements if that's an interest for you, but if the poll is any indication I think you'll have a long wait for this. These days I never get that far unless I deliberate delay the game just to satisfy the urge to nuke someone.
     
  16. KevinLandwaster

    KevinLandwaster Chieftain

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    I don't mind nukes in the game, because in the atomic age and after, this is a big part of politics in the real world. It's pretty easy (as it should be) to pass nuclear nonproliferation. I do think, however, that if we have an option for "no barbarians" we should also have an option for "no nukes."
     
  17. kaspergm

    kaspergm Deity

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    My problem with nukes is not an immersion one, but a balance one. I hate the fact that there are no means to counter or protect against nukes. Might be realistic, but more frustrating than fun. If fighters could shoot down nuclear bombers, I'd be fine with them. With regards to GDR and X-Com, I don't remember whether I modded them out or just pushed them to the end of the tech-tree which game is always over before they come into play. I don't think I've ever seen the X-Com in game, actually.
     
  18. Sclb

    Sclb Emperor

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    You need to really push for science and beeline them to get Xcom. They're extremely good for sniping capitals for late game domination victory. I've rarely used GDR since there are usually better solutions earlier on, and the fact they costs uranium which is usually rare.
     

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