Republicans Outfox Dems Again: Terror Trials Out Of NY

FriendlyFire said:
1 person was found guilty of killing 350+ civilians including women and children. He served 2 days in prison and recieved a full presidental pardon.
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So you're saying the military justice system is too soft and KSM wouldn't receive a fair punishment?
 
FriendlyFire said:
Longest sentence passed out for war crimes by ammerican servicemen.
7 months for rape.
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Dude, one of those kill team guys, the one that cut a deal to testify against his squadmates....just got 24 years in prison.

Also, there are a few that are on death row right now as well.

So, you need to check your sources. Your're off by more than a bit. :rolleyes:
 
Ahhh this is why we bomb libya
 
FriendlyFire said:
mylaib.jpg


1 person was found guilty of killing 350+ civilians including women and children. He served 2 days in prison and recieved a full presidental pardon.
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You know, the more one whines about My Lai, the less meaning it has.
 
Actually, I think just the opposite is true. Just look at how many Holocaust deniers there are despite it repeatedly being mentioned.

And My Lai wasn't an isolated incident either. It is just the one that got all the publicity.

We learn from history that we learn nothing from history. George Bernard Shaw
 
MobBoss said:
Dude, one of those kill team guys, the one that cut a deal to testify against his squadmates....just got 24 years in prison.

Also, there are a few that are on death row right now as well.

So, you need to check your sources. Your're off by more than a bit. :rolleyes:
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How much of that sentence will he actually serve ? Giving that there is huge poltical as well a practical military value in such a long sentence now. Followed by a very quiet appeal / rehearing and reduction of sentence ?

Its not like there isnt a long history of this practice now is there ?
 
MobBoss said:
Dude, one of those kill team guys, the one that cut a deal to testify against his squadmates....just got 24 years in prison.

Also, there are a few that are on death row right now as well.

So, you need to check your sources. Your're off by more than a bit. :rolleyes:
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It's funny, I was talking about the My Lai incident with my roommate a few days ago and he's taking a class on Vietnam in the 20th century. Even though he's in this class, he said that the incident was covered up and people only found out about it a few years ago. So, don't expect too many people to know the truth about it.
 
FriendlyFire said:
How much of that sentence will he actually serve ? Giving that there is huge poltical as well a practical military value in such a long sentence now. Followed by a very quiet appeal / rehearing and reduction of sentence ?

Its not like there isnt a long history of this practice now is there ?
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Actually, there isnt. You're good at pulling up a few isolated incidents and trying to sell them off as the norm, but thats hardly the truth of the matter.

As to the guy with the 24 year sentence, and those yet to be tried, convicted and sentenced, I am sure we can rely on you to keep your finger on the pulse of the issue and will report back to us in a totally non-biased manner, right?
 
amadeus said:
It's funny, I was talking about the My Lai incident with my roommate a few days ago and he's taking a class on Vietnam in the 20th century. Even though he's in this class, he said that the incident was covered up and people only found out about it a few years ago. So, don't expect too many people to know the truth about it.
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He wasn't referring to My Lai. Everybody knew about it when it was finally leaked in 1969, a year after it occurred when Senator Morris Udall was the only person to not ignore a letter that Ron Ridenhour wrote at that time.

You are probably referring to the fact that the three servicemen who originally tried to stop the massacre, and who were vilified by congressmen, weren't rewarded for their heroism, valor, and courage to stand up to such egregious atrocities until 30 years later.

So no, I don't expect too many people to ever remember what actually happened. It is much more convenient to forget such dark days in American history.
 
Formaldehyde said:
He wasn't referring to My Lai. Everybody knew about it when it was finally leaked in 1969, a year after it occurred, when Senator Morris Udall was the only person to not ignore a letter that Ron Ridenhour wrote at that time.

You are probably referring to the fact that the three servicemen who originally tried to stop the massacre were vilified by congressmen and weren't rewarded for their heroism, valor, and courage against their own military until 30 years later.
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Nope, he was talking about the entire incident.
 
I suggest you take the time and effort to read all about what actually happened because your statements are completely false:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_Massacre

Calley was the only person who wasn't acquitted, and he was released by a future criminal president only 2 days after being sentenced to life imprisonment and later fully pardoned. Calley ended up only serving four and a half months of his sentence.

Court martial

On November 17, 1970, the United States Army charged 14 officers, including Major General Samuel W. Koster, the Americal Division's commanding officer, with suppressing information related to the incident. Most of those charges were later dropped. Brigade commander Henderson was the only officer who stood trial on charges relating to the cover-up; he was acquitted on December 17, 1971.[29]

In a four-month-long trial, despite claims that he was following orders from his commanding officer, Captain Medina, he was convicted, on March 29, 1971, of premeditated murder for ordering the shootings. He was initially sentenced to life in prison. Two days later, however, President Nixon made the controversial decision to have Calley released from prison, pending appeal of his sentence. Calley's sentence was later adjusted, so that he would eventually serve four and one-half months in a military prison at Fort Benning.[30]

In a separate trial, Captain Medina denied giving the orders that led to the massacre, and was acquitted of all charges, effectively negating the prosecution's theory of "command responsibility", now referred to as the "Medina standard". Several months after his acquittal, however, Medina admitted that he had suppressed evidence and had lied to Colonel Henderson about the number of civilian deaths.[31]
Most of the enlisted men who were involved in the events at My Lai had already left military service, and were thus legally exempt from prosecution. In the end, of the 26 men initially charged, Calley's was the only conviction.

Some have argued that the outcome of the My Lai courts-martial was a reversal of the laws of war that were set forth in the Nuremberg and Tokyo War Crimes Tribunals.[32] Secretary of the Army Howard Callaway was quoted in the New York Times as stating that Calley's sentence was reduced because Calley honestly believed that what he did was a part of his orders—a rationale that stands in direct contradiction of the standards set at Nuremberg and Tokyo, where German and Japanese soldiers were executed for similar acts.
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You just posted what your roommate stated:

amadeus said:
It's funny, I was talking about the My Lai incident with my roommate a few days ago and he's taking a class on Vietnam in the 20th century. Even though he's in this class, he said that the incident was covered up and people only found out about it a few years ago. So, don't expect too many people to know the truth about it.
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Once again, everybody knew what happened back in 1969 when the truth was finally leaked one year after the intentional US Army cover up.

Read the Wiki article and see for yourself.
 
Formaldehyde said:
Once again, everybody knew what happened back in 1969 when the truth was finally leaked one year after the intentional US Army cover up.
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I think you misunderstood: I didn't mean to say people didn't know about it because it was recent news, I meant that even someone taking a class on the subject didn't know the facts.
 
KSM probably should be tried in a military court.
 
Why is that? Because he is a common criminal and a civilian terrorist?
 
Formaldehyde said:
Why is that? Because he is a common criminal and a civilian terrorist?
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I dont think there is anything about him that is 'common'...

And fwiw, most 'terrorists' are indeed 'civilians'.

Formaldehyde said:
So no, I don't expect too many people to ever remember what actually happened. It is much more convenient to forget such dark days in American history.
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Well, no one is saying we should forget about My Lai, but there is a decided difference in remembering it in perspective and continually riding that donkey all the way to the cusineart factory....
 
Formaldehyde said:
Unless it is a time of properly declared war and you are for military tribunals and courts martial, especially against non-military personnel, you are opposed to modern criminal law as practiced by all advanced civilized countries.
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I have a feeling that I need to check some executive orders. Things are different now.
 
I don't think secret executive orders which violate the Constitution, federal law, and international law count. At least they don't in the opinion of Fox News' own senior judicial expert, as the article pointed out.

Think about it: If the president could declare war on any person or entity or group simply by calling his pursuit of them a "war," there would be no limit to the government's ability to use the tools of war to achieve its ends. We have a "war" on drugs; can drug dealers be tried before military tribunals? We have a "war" on the Mafia; can mobsters be sent to Gitmo and tried there? The Obama administration has arguably declared "war" on Fox News. Are Glenn Beck, Bill O'Reilly and I and my other colleagues in danger of losing our constitutional rights to a government hostile to our opinions?

I trust not. And my trust is based on the oath that everyone who works in the government takes to uphold the Constitution. But I am not naive. Only unflinching public fidelity to the Constitution will preserve the freedoms of us all.
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