GRM7584
King
SM: What are your current plans for wonders, and/or do you need suggestions?
Request partners; MARS mod
- Thread starter Smoking mirror
- Start date
Smoking mirror
Ships Captain
I've not made any decisions on wonders yet, some of what you see from KSR mars trilogy will not be in the first scenario. For instance it will be too early for the space elevator.
I'm thinking of themed wonders;
Teraform wonders
Mohole (big hole in the ground that lets out geothermal heat).
Black dust on the polar caps.
Orbital mirrors (focused on the polar caps).
Engineered plant life (widely distributed).
Chemical coctail factories (let out green house gasses).
etc...
Each would be called a different initiative number, such as Initiative #1 moholes, and would perhaps be small wonders. Each would require the previous one in the city, and would eventualy alow the building of a great wonder that would allow the UN victory.
Military wonders
Equatorial launch silos
Phobos military base
Demios military base
Surface photography
Urainium reprocessing.
etc...
Again they would be small wonders that lead to a great wonder that allows nuclear missiles to be built (or spawns ICBMs)
Medical wonders
Human genome project.
Cybernetic replacements (would spawn martian veterans).
Genetic modifications
Memory copy technique
Replacement organs
etc...
This would be quite a short theme and would give the one who completeed it first access to the longevity treatment or ectogene cloning that would give two citizens each time the city grows and would allow the city to grow to metropolis size ahead of time.
Perhaps the first few wonders would be small wonders alowing a race between civs, but the later ones would be great wonders meaning that if you wanted to prevent someone winning the teraforming race you would have to destroy the cities that house thier required great wonders.
I've had a go at adding some individual details to the leaderheads, I may make them static to start with just so they are available for early testing;
I'm thinking of themed wonders;
Teraform wonders
Mohole (big hole in the ground that lets out geothermal heat).
Black dust on the polar caps.
Orbital mirrors (focused on the polar caps).
Engineered plant life (widely distributed).
Chemical coctail factories (let out green house gasses).
etc...
Each would be called a different initiative number, such as Initiative #1 moholes, and would perhaps be small wonders. Each would require the previous one in the city, and would eventualy alow the building of a great wonder that would allow the UN victory.
Military wonders
Equatorial launch silos
Phobos military base
Demios military base
Surface photography
Urainium reprocessing.
etc...
Again they would be small wonders that lead to a great wonder that allows nuclear missiles to be built (or spawns ICBMs)
Medical wonders
Human genome project.
Cybernetic replacements (would spawn martian veterans).
Genetic modifications
Memory copy technique
Replacement organs
etc...
This would be quite a short theme and would give the one who completeed it first access to the longevity treatment or ectogene cloning that would give two citizens each time the city grows and would allow the city to grow to metropolis size ahead of time.
Perhaps the first few wonders would be small wonders alowing a race between civs, but the later ones would be great wonders meaning that if you wanted to prevent someone winning the teraforming race you would have to destroy the cities that house thier required great wonders.
I've had a go at adding some individual details to the leaderheads, I may make them static to start with just so they are available for early testing;
Kal-el
Deity
Just a point of historical accuracy, Russia doesn't use that flag anymore. 
That's the Former Soviet Union flag. Russia usses a Red, White and Blue flag.
That's the Former Soviet Union flag. Russia usses a Red, White and Blue flag.
Kal-el
Deity
LOL, you're totally right. Man, don't I feel like an idiot. 
WildWeazel
Going Dutch
SM, why not use the terraforming wonders as a space race replacement?
Smoking mirror
Ships Captain
Weasel Op said:
Tempting, But I'm not sure how much work that would require, also the terraforming part oft he first scenario is just going to be the first part of a program, the diplomatic element is to decide who gets to control the terraforming program from that point on, and whether it gets started at all.
From the second scenario on the player will be able to stimulate terraforming through the use of global warming, but not for the first scenario, it's just too early to start at that point.
For the first scenario I'd like to have three clear cut outcomes, either a diplomatic win, a production based victory point win (by producing treasure units and shipping them back to the capital) or a military win. The actual winner wouldn't effect the outcome much, but each of these results would change the starting situation of the next scenario, giving the martian native societies a bonus to either military production or population points.
I suppose it's possible that the three different second stage scenarios would have a different number of playable native civs and a certain amount of developed land (surface ice and rivers) depending on how the first one went, but all that will have to wait till playtesting to see how it goes.
Kal-el
Deity
Here is the Terran forces M.A.N.T.I.S. Armor.
Mobile
Armored
Nano-reactive
Tactical
Infiltration
Suit
The armor is made using nano-reactive fibers that react to to outside stimuli to protect the wearer. The suit is able to seal out bio/chem agents, harden instantly to resist kinetic forces, change color to blend with the surrounding environment, reduce thermal signature to blend with the ambient air temperature, and is light and flexible enough to allow full range of movement as well as reduce the overall fatigue level of the soldier wearing it allowing for extended operating times in the field.
The rifle is a combination DEW (Directed Energy Weapon) and Gyrojet.
The spines are used to project the ECM field in order to jam enemy sensors that can not be defeated by the suits other counter measures.
Mobile
Armored
Nano-reactive
Tactical
Infiltration
Suit
The armor is made using nano-reactive fibers that react to to outside stimuli to protect the wearer. The suit is able to seal out bio/chem agents, harden instantly to resist kinetic forces, change color to blend with the surrounding environment, reduce thermal signature to blend with the ambient air temperature, and is light and flexible enough to allow full range of movement as well as reduce the overall fatigue level of the soldier wearing it allowing for extended operating times in the field.
The rifle is a combination DEW (Directed Energy Weapon) and Gyrojet.
The spines are used to project the ECM field in order to jam enemy sensors that can not be defeated by the suits other counter measures.
Smoking mirror
Ships Captain
That looks awesome Kal-el, I just hope I can do it justice when the time comes...
I'm going to save nanotech poper for the second scenario at least. The first will use some nanotech- like nanotexturing (to produce faster charging batteries) Buckyballs (for some materials production) and nanotubes (for many different applications, need to do some research, But I think they are using them in power generation techs and other cutting edge technologies).
I think I will try something between the Active ECM suit and the Mantis armour as a sort of Ultimate weapon of the first scenario. But for the most part I've alomst got all the first scenario units planned. Actualy the last concept I need to realise for the first mod is an advanced military tracked vehicle of some sort. I've got a civilian version I'm working on at the moment, but it would be nice to have a full military tank to use towards the end of the scenario.
I'm going to save nanotech poper for the second scenario at least. The first will use some nanotech- like nanotexturing (to produce faster charging batteries) Buckyballs (for some materials production) and nanotubes (for many different applications, need to do some research, But I think they are using them in power generation techs and other cutting edge technologies).
I think I will try something between the Active ECM suit and the Mantis armour as a sort of Ultimate weapon of the first scenario. But for the most part I've alomst got all the first scenario units planned. Actualy the last concept I need to realise for the first mod is an advanced military tracked vehicle of some sort. I've got a civilian version I'm working on at the moment, but it would be nice to have a full military tank to use towards the end of the scenario.
Kal-el
Deity
I can neither confirm nor deny the use of nanotubing in the US leading edge military technologies, but you can find a lot of unclassified stuff by doing a google on future warrior programs and the objective force warrior program.
GRM7584
King
Nanotubes are mainly being applied to biotechnology (including genetic manipulation) and microprocessing; they could be used in high-tensile materials, but since you don't want a space elevator for the first scenario (plus a mars elevator could well be do-able with current materials because a synchronous orbit could be achieved just over 10,000 km high, as opposed to earth's just over 35,000), it might be used for 'cybernetics' applications, IE artificial fibrous muscles, or in armored suit creation (as a tough but flexible polymeric 'joint' with non-nano solid plates). Nanotubes also have potential use in batteries, maybe have nanotexturing and nanotubes each leading up to some sort of super-battery-requiring tech...
Spherical Fullerenes could also be used in medicine and superconductive stuff.
Spherical Fullerenes could also be used in medicine and superconductive stuff.
Kal-el
Deity
I've added a few elements to the M.A.N.T.I.S. armor image.
WildWeazel
Going Dutch
"Buckyballs"... that's great 
Are you going to be remaking the interface to look more Mars-esque? Some of the icons and textures will look out of place in a futuristic mod.
Are you going to be remaking the interface to look more Mars-esque? Some of the icons and textures will look out of place in a futuristic mod.
GRM7584
King
I've mentioned that before; this mod, WH40K (at least as a template where more appropos stuff could be added), and my own mod (if I finish it...) will all need some sort of futuristic interface to be done...I've considered doing it myself, but I just haven't felt inclined.
Smoking mirror
Ships Captain
Hmmm.. well interface is something that could be done towards the end of development, as it should be quite quick to do, and realy you want most ideas developed by then so that you can have it be representative of the mod as a whole.
I'm still 50-50 on including a space elevator in the first mod, IMHO I think it would be best to save it for a later date. Of course we could include a "test" elevator, perhaps just big enough to carry a small satelite or a single person in to orbit. At the moment one of the "X-prizes" that NASA has in the works is an orbital elevator prize, for 2005-2006. However the prize is just for developing some of the materials and technology that would lead to a working elevator.
I think maybe some X-prizes would be good as wonders, such as a test elevator, A test subject for the longevity cure, or a deep geothermal facility. They would give you a tech boost or extra income and you would get an idea of some of the techs and wonders available later in the mod progression.
Kal-el, how long should those spines be? in the main picture they don't look that long, but the inset picture has them about elbow length... I can think of some good effects already, using animated textures it would be possible for different body parts to become invisible one at a time, or for a "wave" type effect to spread out from his center to represent his stealth camoflage...
I'm still 50-50 on including a space elevator in the first mod, IMHO I think it would be best to save it for a later date. Of course we could include a "test" elevator, perhaps just big enough to carry a small satelite or a single person in to orbit. At the moment one of the "X-prizes" that NASA has in the works is an orbital elevator prize, for 2005-2006. However the prize is just for developing some of the materials and technology that would lead to a working elevator.
I think maybe some X-prizes would be good as wonders, such as a test elevator, A test subject for the longevity cure, or a deep geothermal facility. They would give you a tech boost or extra income and you would get an idea of some of the techs and wonders available later in the mod progression.
Kal-el, how long should those spines be? in the main picture they don't look that long, but the inset picture has them about elbow length... I can think of some good effects already, using animated textures it would be possible for different body parts to become invisible one at a time, or for a "wave" type effect to spread out from his center to represent his stealth camoflage...
Kal-el
Deity
the inset was a preliminary sketch, so don't take that as gospel. However, you did mention retractable spines at one point, and we could have the spines extend as guide "wings" during jump/glides in the lighter Martian gravity and then retract during normal operations. Just an idea.
I'm looking forward to seeing what you do for the camo effect.
I'm looking forward to seeing what you do for the camo effect.
Smoking mirror
Ships Captain
Well, I like the shape the short spines make, so I may keep them quite tight in to the body.
I've just posted a new unit, I wasn't actualy planning on finishing it today, I've been doing one animation at a time and switching form unit to unit, so I have several that are at about 50% finished, but I just got a bit carried away and ended up making a complete unit.
It's the final Tank of the first Scenario, and the only armoured vehicle available. It's an oversized APC with a small armoured turret. The whole tank is hand built rather than mass produced because of the huge cost involved and the lack of a need for a large armoured vehicle force. The armour is not that thick and the turret guns are underpowered, but most armed forces will be glad to have it as there are few other vehicles that can stand up to it...
Again I've tried to have a flawed unit, so that later tanks are an obvious improvement. Later tanks will be smaller but will have a larger main gun, have better air deffence and better armour. Eventualy tanks will be pushed in to obscurity by indivdual armoured troopers, but the tank and APC will always have a place as an armoured high speed response unit.
I've just posted a new unit, I wasn't actualy planning on finishing it today, I've been doing one animation at a time and switching form unit to unit, so I have several that are at about 50% finished, but I just got a bit carried away and ended up making a complete unit.
It's the final Tank of the first Scenario, and the only armoured vehicle available. It's an oversized APC with a small armoured turret. The whole tank is hand built rather than mass produced because of the huge cost involved and the lack of a need for a large armoured vehicle force. The armour is not that thick and the turret guns are underpowered, but most armed forces will be glad to have it as there are few other vehicles that can stand up to it...
Again I've tried to have a flawed unit, so that later tanks are an obvious improvement. Later tanks will be smaller but will have a larger main gun, have better air deffence and better armour. Eventualy tanks will be pushed in to obscurity by indivdual armoured troopers, but the tank and APC will always have a place as an armoured high speed response unit.
Kal-el
Deity
SM, where did you come up with the Subarashii name? I'm trying to find a reference and all I can find is that it means "wonderful, splendid, magnificent".
Smoking mirror
Ships Captain
It's one of the Transnational names from Kim Stanley Robinsons Mars trilogy.
The transnationals are massive amalgams of dozens of differnt multinational companies. As they merge with other peers they pick up long double or tripple bareled names, like "Time-Warner", Eventualy, as these names become too unwieldy, they pick a new name that describes what they are, and hides the massive nature of thier corporate structure. Sometimes it is the name of a small part of the original merger, most often the best known one. For example the stationers Office depot, still use many of the old names which are parts of the companies they have bought up in other counties, such as Guilbert in france, Nice-Day, and Viking Direct.
Some of the companies in KSRs Mars Trilogy are;
Subarashii
Praxis
Marharani (probably a mis-spelling from my memory)
Armscor
Amex
Mitsubishi
Some of these are real companies, and some are perhaps based on real companies, or parent companies. KSR spent 17 years researching his Mars trilogy so I'm asuming he didin't just pick the names out of thin air.
The transnationals are massive amalgams of dozens of differnt multinational companies. As they merge with other peers they pick up long double or tripple bareled names, like "Time-Warner", Eventualy, as these names become too unwieldy, they pick a new name that describes what they are, and hides the massive nature of thier corporate structure. Sometimes it is the name of a small part of the original merger, most often the best known one. For example the stationers Office depot, still use many of the old names which are parts of the companies they have bought up in other counties, such as Guilbert in france, Nice-Day, and Viking Direct.
Some of the companies in KSRs Mars Trilogy are;
Subarashii
Praxis
Marharani (probably a mis-spelling from my memory)
Armscor
Amex
Mitsubishi
Some of these are real companies, and some are perhaps based on real companies, or parent companies. KSR spent 17 years researching his Mars trilogy so I'm asuming he didin't just pick the names out of thin air.
Kal-el
Deity
Are you using those same mega-corps for this mod? You mentioned earlier the mega-corps would be the ones to colonize, but then you also mentioned China being the first to Mars, due to its already very corporate structure, and have leaderheads for other major countries. Will you be using countries, mega-corps, or a combination of both?
I am curious, because it seems to me that each civ, or at least each "culture" group, should have its own armor designs. What are the chances that China and the US would be using the same equipment? I know that means more work, but it would make the mod all the better if it were realized.
I am curious, because it seems to me that each civ, or at least each "culture" group, should have its own armor designs. What are the chances that China and the US would be using the same equipment? I know that means more work, but it would make the mod all the better if it were realized.
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