Research For 1776: The World

[CivPartisan]

I am working on a new scenario...and I am interested in what the world was doing in 1776. Namely, I would like to know if anyone knows what Russian, Portuguese, and Dutch, and Spanish civs were doing during this time...any info is of great help.



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John Valdez
Modpacks/Scenarios/Review

 

[Alcibiaties of Athenae]

I haven't got the time to give you a proper answer now, JV, but tomorrow I will.

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[CivPartisan]

Hey thanks AoA! I'm looking forward to it!

John

 

[Squirrel2004]

Russia was under Catherine the Great. A little over a year earlier(late 1774) she suppressed the Pugachev Rebellion(serfs wanted more freedom, didn't get it). At the same time her first Russo-Turkish war ended, giving Russia the Crimea. Her second Russo-Turkish War was in 1787-1792, giving Russia other Black Sea areas.
between 1767 and 1795(i think) Poland was split up bewteen Russia(1767), Prussia(1792), and Austria(1795) Catherine took parts of Ukraine, Belorussia, Finland, and Lithuania between 1770-1780. Luckily for you, I just did a project on Catherine 2 weeks ago and I still known this stuff. They started colonizing Alaska around this time, too.

Spain "borrowed" Louisiana, French leased it to them to avoid losing it in the French-Indian War against Britain.

Squirrel2004

[This message has been edited by Squirrel2004 (edited April 08, 2001).]

 

[CivPartisan]

That is what I thought about the Russians...I did not know about the leasing of Louisianna...that is an important event...I'll have to use that.

Catherine the Great was quite a woman. This scenario will be using the world theater, so I want to get this right. When did the Russians abandon the colonization of Alaska?

John

 

[Squirrel2004]

When the US bouth it in 1867, but they started abandoning it earlier, when the British(In Canada), U.S., and Spanish(Mexicans) started pushing west towards Oregon Country, which was claimed by all four, but Russia backed out and the US beat Mexico in war for that area(California, Nevada, Colorado, Texas) That all happened between 1803 and 1850s.

Squirrel2004

 

[willemvanoranje]

For the Dutch is was kind of a post-golden age era. There were still colonies all over the world, but the wars they faught cost a lot of money, and the great profits they got in the 17th century, were dropping fastly. In 1789 there was the French revolution, in 1795 a Dutch revolution, backed up by the French. You may want to add that, I think your scenario will cover a few years.

Did you know that the American Independence Declaration was based on the letter the Dutch nobles sent to Margaretha of Parma (Filip II's sister) to claim their indepenency?

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Concordia res parvae cres****.

 

[burak]

Poland was divided by its neighbours in three steps:
-1772-Russia, Prussia and Austria
-1793-Russia and Prussia
-1795-R,P&A
In 1791 Polish parliament had proclaimed a Constitution (second on the world). In 1767 Polish nobles on Ukraine proclaimed a confederacy against russian domination. In 1794 Poles had made insurrection to overthrow russian domination again and regain lost territories.

 

[Alcibiaties of Athenae]

Since you have gotten good information about Russia and holland, I will confine my remarks to Spain. This information came my way from my friend Jesus Munoz Fernandez, who you may know is a fine scenario designer, who translated the following for me from a very boring book he had on the subject. You will have to look up the exact dates, but it shouldn't be to hard. Spain was ruled by Charles the III in 1776.

• 1779

• Spain Declares war on britain.
• Spainish officer Matis de Galvez takes Ft. San Fernando de Omoa in Honduras

• 1780

• English Admiral Rodney defeats Juan de Langara's Spanish fleet at the seige of Gibraltar.
• Bonet attempts to take Pensacola from Britain and fails.
• Ft. Carlotta at Mobile surrenders to Bernardo de Galvez (brother of Matis, and commander of Spain's forces in the New World).
• Second Spanish attempt at Pensacola fails as the fleet is sunk in a hurricane.

• 1781

• Spain takes Ft. St. Joseph on lake Michigan.
• Bernardo de Galvez takes Pensacola from the British.
• Bernardo de Galvez sends troops to South America to put down revolts.

• 1782

• Britain surrenders Menorca to the Duke of Crillon
• Most fighting ends.

• 1783

• The war ends.

It will take some doing to see what Portugal was up to at the time. Remember also, that Cathrine of Russia and Frederick of Prussia were quite old at this time. I hope this helps in some way.

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[This message has been edited by Alcibiaties of Athenae (edited April 09, 2001).]

 

[willemvanoranje]

Wow, AofA!! You really make work of it!(maybe that's a Dutch expression only)

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Concordia res parvae cres****.

 

[CivPartisan]

willemvanoranje,

What about Dutch settlements in America. Were there any famous settlements at that time that did a lot of trade or cooperation with American Colonists? Also, where were the other Dutch colonies in the world?

I am going to include the letter. I think it is important to have a reality check for Americans and where the ideas come from.

AoA,

Your events for the Spanish will be an excellent addition to the scenario...I do need the info on the Portuguese, especially their naval situation...I know they were some of the greatest navigators in the world for the period.

To everyone, unfortunately I only have room for 7 civs: American, British, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Russian. I will include the actions of other countries in the pop-up text for major events. I am building the world population that is not represented by the civs as the Barbarians (I'll change their name to Natives or Local Population) and I am giving the cities local city names.

AoA,

When did the Portuguese colonize Brazil? Also, someone had colonies in N.Africa...who?

much appreciation,

John

 

[Alcibiaties of Athenae]

O.K., JV, I'll get you some info on Portugal, and it's colonies, but give me a day or so.

As for Dutch colonies, off the top of my head, there is Curacao. The Dutch first settled Nassau, but I'm not sure they controlled it 1776. They controlled St. Eustatius for sure. As a aside, did you know that after the American revolution John Paul Jones comanded the Russian navy? Remind me about it, and I will tell the story some time.

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[Alcibiaties of Athenae]

Some Portugal things: Ruler in 1776: Joseph I, but his daughter took over in 1777. The Brazil colony goes back to the 16th century. Here is an excellent link for things Portugal. If this isn't enough, I will ask around some more.

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[CivPartisan]

Ok, folks...here's the deal...I accidentally saved the scenario in FW so there will be no Classic Civ II play for this scenario...sorry, but the map is too complex for me to redo.

Second, I need some famous war Generals or leaders that I can use...so far, I am using Cornwallis, Washington, Lord Howe, Napoleon, John Paul Jones, Benedict Arnold...

I need Spanish, Russian, Portuguese, and Dutch figures in history 1776-1830.

I think I am going to make this scenario mission based, rather than using traditional Civ II scoring or objectives...nothing else seems feesible at this point. Also, it would make sense to write-in different objectives for each nation, so that game play could be varied and you would have the chance to play from different national perspectives.

If eveything works out...every nation gets to interact with America at some point...and then you get to decide if you can change history or not!

That's the idea...hehe...

willemvanoranje, I'm relying on you to inform me about great Dutch countrymen of that time, AoA thanks for Josef I, but who was his daughter? Was Portugal a Monarchy throughout?(I tried that website but there is a lot of it in Portuguese it seemed for the parts I wanted to know..haha).

John

 

[Alcibiaties of Athenae]

The girl's name is Maria I, and she ruled from 1777-1816. Her husband was named Pedro III, who ruled as her consort. Maria had shown signs of religious mania and became totally insane after 1788. Her son acted as ruler for her, and became King John VI on her death in 1816. I don't know your map's areas, but the Portugese had colonies in the Azores, in Guinea in the new world, as well as their African colonies on the Gold coast and Luanda. Since I now know your time frame, I can help a little with the Portuguese navy, as of 1795: 11 Ships of the line, none of larger then 74 guns. 10 Frigates, and numerious smaller ships. Most of this fleet fled with the Royal family to Brazil in 1807 to escape the French. During the American Revolutionary War, the British maintained a squadron at Lisbon, but I know of no times when Portugese ships engaged in any action.

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[willemvanoranje]

Hmmm. Well, the Dutch had New Amsterdam a while, but the English traded it and called it New York. Dutch colonies? I'm not sure I know all of them; there were a lot of small trade posts. I'll try to look it up.

I am sure of SURINAM in northern South-America, capital city Paramaribo. On Curaçao, there was the city Willemstad, and we might had control over Aruba, Bonaire, St. Estasius, St. Martin and Saba as well, but the last three are very small islands; Saba has 2000 inhabitants.

The Dutch had a great part of the Brazilian coast as well. But'I'll try to give you more details later.

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Concordia res parvae cres****.

 

[CivPartisan]

Ok, when did New Amsterdam become New York...before or after 1776 (it's before I am thinking)...I didn't know about the Dutch in South America, this is new to me...also, I think putting the Dutch on a few islands is a great idea...I can strengthen their merchant fleet...However, as I see it...the Dutch were not a military power so I am thinking of loading their ships with merchants instead...

Kevin, if you can get the names of Trading posts in America that would be helpful, because then I could load them with merchants too...(Basically, if you play the Dutch, you will be playing economically...I will try to build the Dutch wealth so that you can buy cities as opposed to military take over-it could be a fun strategy).

AoA, thanks for the names...this should be very helpful...Now, let me get this straight...The bulk of the Portuguese navy ended up in Brazil at the turn of the century...that means that my idea to give the Portuguese a large navy headed to Brazil is going to work out after all. I can load those ships with merchants too. I can also put a few Portuguese cities along the west African coast now...very good.

To everyone, I still need more info on the Russian, Spanish, Dutch famous generals or leaders that I can use as units...actually, I have tentative unit choices but they need names.

I'm trying to work this scenario so that you get a special leader or general to help you win your war...this way...you can have a real powerful unit at the front, and it's more historical feeling that way.

Thanks for all your help, you guys are great!

John

 

[Alcibiaties of Athenae]

What exactly will be the map? I mean, will it be the whole world, or just the Americas with Europe and Africa? Will it include India, where Britain, France, Portugal, and Holland all had interests during the 1770s? What time frame do you want the leaders from? BTW, Dutch influence ended in the 17th century in New York, when Peter Sytvasant surrendered New Amsterdam to Britain, more then 100 years before the American Revolution, and it was renamed New York. If you want leaders for France and Russia, as well as Britain and Spain, from what time period? The Napoleonic period begins in 1789, only a few years after 1776. If you can tell me exactly what you want, I'm sure I can find what your looking for.

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[Squirrel2004]

When the scenario starts, have a barbarian leader and 15-40 little warrior-peasants in Southeast Russia. The leader, name him Emel'ian Pugachev, and his little followers something like revolters or rebels(they can actually be used everywhere as "barbarians". I only know one Russian guy you could use as a leader, and thats Grigory Orlov. He helped Catherine overthrow Peter and he was head of the Russian Imperial Guard. One more thing, do you think you could start it in 1774, just so you can add the Pugachev Rebellion? It would be pretty cool, because he actually took over some Russian cities(in the southern Ural Mts.) .This would add more challenge for the Russian side(and if it spreads beyond Russia, who knows?)

Squirrel2004

 

[CivPartisan]

I'm sorry AoA, I just realized I forgot to tell everyone the premise for this scenario...my mistake...uhem...here it goes...

The name of the scenario is:
"Birth of America"

The setting is the entire world. A world map is used and yes, AoA, India will be present. It is meant to be a mission based scenario so objectives and traditional civ scoring will not be used. Time period is 1776 to 1850. You will have less than 75 years to do something. Each civ will have a different goal to complete depending upon which one you choose. If you choose America, obviously to become independent. If you choose Great Britain, keep the colonies and expand the British Empire...and so on. If you are Dutch on the other hand, you may have the objective to control a continent by economics (hence, buying all the cities)...

I've played four revolutionary war scenarios (downloaded others but couldn't get into them) and my biggest complaint has been that these scenarios are too biased as to the stability of the colonies in America. In fact, it is a miracle and poor war management that lost the war for the British. Quite frankly, they just didn't take the colonies seriously enough about the war to waste good money on it...they were costly to maintain and didn't really serve viably after the first 100 years had passed.

So, to make a long story short...there were many other factors that are far more interesting during the Birth of America that have not been explored to their fullest. At any rate, any other European power with the motivation could have seized the U.S. after it's war with Britain. I want to create that atmosphere with historical events up until 1850. 1790-1820 is the point I expect to make the U.S. up for grabs if you are playing any other civ and you have been paying attention to the scenario pop ups.

Hopefully, anyway...that is what I want to do...

You can consider this scenario: American Revolution: World Theater- I suppose.

And, I might add that I expect to make everyone expansionist in attitude to reflect the imperialism of the time period.

John