RFC:I New Tech Tree Discussion Thread
- Thread starter kairob
- Start date
fireclaw722
Imperial Guard
Yeah, I guess now I should change it...
Panopticon
Utilitarian
OK. It's a bit complicated and it's tough to visualise. I can't do a drawing of it. Imagine the normal tech tree from the Renaissance on, add some techs in the middle of some links to represent more gradual development, add some more that are more or less new concepts, and you get what I've drawn up. It's in CSV format at the moment, you should be able to open it with a spreadsheet programme. There are about 5 techs fewer than in the standard tech tree, so there is room to add more, and there's even more room if you delete some of these. I haven't distinguished between compulsory and optional prerequisites, so there seem to be lots of requirements for some techs, but that will be reduced.
That's very nice, Panopticon! Here's some thoughts:
- I tried to classify the techs with the 5-era system I proposed on this thread (if you guys still think it's relevant). It wasn't hard. However, some eras (Discovery and Machine Ages) have significantly less techs than the others. It's actually not a big deal, but we could try to balance that a little.
- There should be, in my opinion, a tech for caravels, because they have little to do with optics (lateen sails? Also, are galleys or a similarly primitive ship going to be in the game before you get galleons?).
- I'd like to see film and/or television, for their huge contribution to media, art, and diffusion of ideas. Film could require Optics and Electricity, while TV would need Film and Radio.
- Personnally I'd get rid of Mass Media, I think it's too vague and doesn't lead anywhere. Especially if Film/TV are in.
- Other suggestions include Propaganda, and Trade Unions. I also thought about Journalism.
- You have a lot of Physics techs here... I'm not complaining, I love physics!
But Dynamics should definitely be discarded and merged with Newtonian physics.
- Revivalism? A quick Internet research leads only to Christian revival... not very pertinent with China, Japan, Turkey, etc., is it?
- I'd rename Internet to Computer Networks (it's more general), especially if we keep Internet as a project.
- Perhaps a few more futuristic techs should be added (what's the end of the calendar again?), and Future Techs, I'm sure, are not going to be just improvement on stealth.
- I tried to classify the techs with the 5-era system I proposed on this thread (if you guys still think it's relevant). It wasn't hard. However, some eras (Discovery and Machine Ages) have significantly less techs than the others. It's actually not a big deal, but we could try to balance that a little.
- There should be, in my opinion, a tech for caravels, because they have little to do with optics (lateen sails? Also, are galleys or a similarly primitive ship going to be in the game before you get galleons?).
- I'd like to see film and/or television, for their huge contribution to media, art, and diffusion of ideas. Film could require Optics and Electricity, while TV would need Film and Radio.
- Personnally I'd get rid of Mass Media, I think it's too vague and doesn't lead anywhere. Especially if Film/TV are in.
- Other suggestions include Propaganda, and Trade Unions. I also thought about Journalism.
- You have a lot of Physics techs here... I'm not complaining, I love physics!
But Dynamics should definitely be discarded and merged with Newtonian physics. - Revivalism? A quick Internet research leads only to Christian revival... not very pertinent with China, Japan, Turkey, etc., is it?
- I'd rename Internet to Computer Networks (it's more general), especially if we keep Internet as a project.
- Perhaps a few more futuristic techs should be added (what's the end of the calendar again?), and Future Techs, I'm sure, are not going to be just improvement on stealth.
Panopticon
Utilitarian
Thanks Steb. Here's what I think of those ideas.
- I'm sorry I didn't include the breakdown of techs by your schema, because that was what I used when designing it. The main problem is that there are lots of post-WWII techs in the main game anyway. I think it's fair to say that Advanced Flight, Composites, Stealth, Human Genetics, Fibre Optics, Fusion, Superconductor, Satellites, Robotics and Computers all belong in the last era - that's a big chunk of the tech tree even in vanilla Civ. The main reason why the Machine Age has so few techs seems to be the two world wars that happened in that period.
- There's room for a caravels tech.
- There's room for Film and TV as well (Mass Media represents TV, I think), but how useful are they as techs? What do they do? Are they just there as dead ends? (The same problem applies to the line of art techs.) We need something to do with them that isn't just "generic happiness building".
- Propaganda is surely included in a Radio/Mass Media tech? Again, it seems like tech for tech's sake. Trade Unions is a better name for the Socialism tech.
- Dynamics is like that too, it can go as it is just an intermediary between Physics and its following techs anyway.
- Revivalism is basically about religious politics in the post-war period, it's not necessary. It would be funny to build "Terrorist" but very, very un-PC.
- Computer Networks is good.
- If we add futuristic techs, we need something to do with them. The modern era is already pretty full.
It's a pity we don't have an online resource we can alter on the fly.
- I'm sorry I didn't include the breakdown of techs by your schema, because that was what I used when designing it. The main problem is that there are lots of post-WWII techs in the main game anyway. I think it's fair to say that Advanced Flight, Composites, Stealth, Human Genetics, Fibre Optics, Fusion, Superconductor, Satellites, Robotics and Computers all belong in the last era - that's a big chunk of the tech tree even in vanilla Civ. The main reason why the Machine Age has so few techs seems to be the two world wars that happened in that period.
- There's room for a caravels tech.
- There's room for Film and TV as well (Mass Media represents TV, I think), but how useful are they as techs? What do they do? Are they just there as dead ends? (The same problem applies to the line of art techs.) We need something to do with them that isn't just "generic happiness building".
- Propaganda is surely included in a Radio/Mass Media tech? Again, it seems like tech for tech's sake. Trade Unions is a better name for the Socialism tech.
- Dynamics is like that too, it can go as it is just an intermediary between Physics and its following techs anyway.
- Revivalism is basically about religious politics in the post-war period, it's not necessary. It would be funny to build "Terrorist" but very, very un-PC.
- Computer Networks is good.
- If we add futuristic techs, we need something to do with them. The modern era is already pretty full.
It's a pity we don't have an online resource we can alter on the fly.
Good points here. But let me respond:
- The 5-era division is absolutely unimportant. All eras do is alter the music and change the cities' look, right? Anyway, it's correct to say that many of the techs belong to the last age, and that not many qualify for the Machine Age. And it's also right to say it doesn't actually matter.
- Film is the obvious tech for the Hollywood wonder, while TV would more or less replace Mass Media and perhaps lead to something else... computer-related? I'm not acually sure about TV, then, so Mass Media could be kept, but I want to insist on Film. Keep in mind that many old techs like Literature, Drama, Music, Aesthetics, etc. should have a modern equivalent. That's what the art line is for. I also want to say that Civ, in my opinion, makes a bad job at representing modern art and entertainment, which is a very important part of modern societies. It's just generic culture and happy faces, and the last cultural tech is early Mass Media. It's one of the reasons I never liked the Modern Era, I guess (the other being the unnerving music). It would be great to improve this. (Film and TV were also a way to boost the Machine Age.)
We'll need kairob's opinion on the TV/MM war.
- Propaganda was actually suggested by kairob:
- Dynamics that are not part of Newtonian physics make little sense to me, but as an in-between tech I am willing to accept it...
- Revivalism could indeed be interesting. There is a complete lack of religious techs, which is understandable given the time period, but still. How will the Reformation be triggered? From the beginning (too early to be historical, but makes it easier to control), with a tech (Printing Press or something requiring it?), or with a project requiring PP?
Revivalism also, for now, just needs Conservatism, which is a lot earlier. The prerequisites could include Mass Media/TV, maybe?
- The 5-era division is absolutely unimportant. All eras do is alter the music and change the cities' look, right? Anyway, it's correct to say that many of the techs belong to the last age, and that not many qualify for the Machine Age. And it's also right to say it doesn't actually matter.
- Film is the obvious tech for the Hollywood wonder, while TV would more or less replace Mass Media and perhaps lead to something else... computer-related? I'm not acually sure about TV, then, so Mass Media could be kept, but I want to insist on Film. Keep in mind that many old techs like Literature, Drama, Music, Aesthetics, etc. should have a modern equivalent. That's what the art line is for. I also want to say that Civ, in my opinion, makes a bad job at representing modern art and entertainment, which is a very important part of modern societies. It's just generic culture and happy faces, and the last cultural tech is early Mass Media. It's one of the reasons I never liked the Modern Era, I guess (the other being the unnerving music). It would be great to improve this. (Film and TV were also a way to boost the Machine Age.)
We'll need kairob's opinion on the TV/MM war.
- Propaganda was actually suggested by kairob:
I don't care much about it though.
- Dynamics that are not part of Newtonian physics make little sense to me, but as an in-between tech I am willing to accept it...
- Revivalism could indeed be interesting. There is a complete lack of religious techs, which is understandable given the time period, but still. How will the Reformation be triggered? From the beginning (too early to be historical, but makes it easier to control), with a tech (Printing Press or something requiring it?), or with a project requiring PP?
Revivalism also, for now, just needs Conservatism, which is a lot earlier. The prerequisites could include Mass Media/TV, maybe?
Panopticon
Utilitarian
I think we agree on pretty much everything you wrote above, now it's just a matter of what Kai wants to implement from it.
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