Abegweit
Anarchist trader
They weren't even interested in France. Hitler made it very clear before the war that he wanted to expand to the east, and every action he took was in the direction.
Don't forget which side declared war.
Rhye's as a teaching tool for History
- Thread starter ongwin
- Start date
Don't forget which side declared war.
Spearthrower
Thrower of spears
I think the basic premise is that Hitler thought that all "Aryans" secretly agreed with his plans for the "under races" and so, would leave him to do as he pleased, even if they wouldn't outright support him. Simply, he was blinded by his fanatical beliefs.
Abegweit
Anarchist trader
Hitler's foreign policy was as racist as his domestic one. The English are Aryans too. The Slavs, in contrast, were sub-humans who were fit only to live as an under class. The French and other Latins came somewhere in between. David Irving's excellent "Hitler's War" describes this very well. It also talks about his plans for subject peoples after the war. Ghettos. Minimal or no education. Strange indeed that Irving has been branded a neo-Nazi.
Edit. Cross-post with Spearthrower. Exactly. The English were carrying the "White Man's Burden" elsewhere. Hitler always hoped that they would come to understand that it was, in truth, the Aryan's burden.
All this talk of hitler reminds me of a debate we had at the debate sociaty and as no one wanted to argue hitlers side I had to argue that he was not inherently evil...
(btw I am not a nazi I am a socialist/communist, but not a stalinist and I do not agree with hitler, I just like arguing and no one else was up to the challange)
(btw I am not a nazi I am a socialist/communist, but not a stalinist and I do not agree with hitler, I just like arguing and no one else was up to the challange)
Elhoim
Iron Tower Studio Dev
OT! (random digression without responding to anyone in particular)
Phillosofically speaking, you would first have to define what "evil" is. I´m sure that from his point of view he wasn´t evil, and that what he was doing was a service to his country and the true humankind.
We have the same type of scum here in Argentina, who believe that what they did was the "right" thing to do, and that it was "necessary" for the well-being of the country.
Anyway, the only way to prevent this kind of things from happening again is trying to see things from their point of view, and preventing the causes that gave birth to that line of tought. Labeling things as "evil" is lazy and dangerous, since we are just aplying labels to people (or acts) from our limited point of view*, just like Hitler did.
* All points of view are limited, since they are unidirectional. The only way to obtain a better view of the bigger picture is gathering all possible points of view.
Phillosofically speaking, you would first have to define what "evil" is. I´m sure that from his point of view he wasn´t evil, and that what he was doing was a service to his country and the true humankind.
We have the same type of scum here in Argentina, who believe that what they did was the "right" thing to do, and that it was "necessary" for the well-being of the country.
Anyway, the only way to prevent this kind of things from happening again is trying to see things from their point of view, and preventing the causes that gave birth to that line of tought. Labeling things as "evil" is lazy and dangerous, since we are just aplying labels to people (or acts) from our limited point of view*, just like Hitler did.
* All points of view are limited, since they are unidirectional. The only way to obtain a better view of the bigger picture is gathering all possible points of view.
Phallus
Freudian Slip
but you're still proud of the British Empire?
For repeatedly denying the holocaust? That may not make him a neo-Nazi, but it doesn't exactly do him any favours.
Couldn't have said it better, and the fact the American government can get away with such simplistic 'black and white' language in this day is alarming. Sorry, I know it isn't relevant (even to the OT discussion), but there's no respectable reason for a government to turn a statement into a hysterical scream.
Spearthrower
Thrower of spears
I had the idea of adding something to that effect (i.e. like the U.S. Government) at the end of my final sentence "....blinded by his fanatical beliefs" but thought it would cause hard feelings! 
I agree with Elohim - evil and good depend on where you are standing. Fortunately, most humans stand in the camp that declares genocide as evil.... but there's simply nothing in the universe's or nature's rules to justify that declaration - it's a social rule that we have constructed - like many others they are there to protect the social fabric of humanity.... if everyone was just allowed to go round committing genocide, it could get pretty messy!
I agree with Elohim - evil and good depend on where you are standing. Fortunately, most humans stand in the camp that declares genocide as evil.... but there's simply nothing in the universe's or nature's rules to justify that declaration - it's a social rule that we have constructed - like many others they are there to protect the social fabric of humanity.... if everyone was just allowed to go round committing genocide, it could get pretty messy!
Aeon221
Lord of the Cheese Helmet
- Joined
- Apr 22, 2003
- Messages
- 1,995
Like I stated a few times in my post, I've got no real period knowledge. The most current history book I own is about the Spanish Civil War, and that is solely because Homage to Catalonia deserved better understanding of the conflict than I had.
I would also like to suggest that those pointing the finger (you know which one) at my nation remember that their own nations are certainly not clear of these same charges. To be blunt, dualistic viewpoints were not invented in the United States (Persia, you KNOW I am talking to you! Danged Zoroastrians!). Lets just say I keep up on my current events, even if I find modern history a dull pursuit.
This is not because I voted for the guy (to be honest, I wrote in Mickey Mouse), but because I believe that you are unfairly targeting a single entity, when not a single person is free of this same charge.
In that spirit, onward we all may march, guilty all the same.
I would also like to suggest that those pointing the finger (you know which one) at my nation remember that their own nations are certainly not clear of these same charges. To be blunt, dualistic viewpoints were not invented in the United States (Persia, you KNOW I am talking to you! Danged Zoroastrians!). Lets just say I keep up on my current events, even if I find modern history a dull pursuit.
This is not because I voted for the guy (to be honest, I wrote in Mickey Mouse), but because I believe that you are unfairly targeting a single entity, when not a single person is free of this same charge.
In that spirit, onward we all may march, guilty all the same.
Spearthrower
Thrower of spears
Actually, I think Mickey Mouse has got a lot to answer for! 
Elhoim
Iron Tower Studio Dev
Actually, I think Mickey Mouse has got a lot to answer for!
Yeah! For example, he have had a girlfriend for over 50 years. Shouldn´t he be married with children? Are they living together without the consent of god? It´s a wonder that the religious groups didn´t attacked him already, or did they?
jgbaxter
Warlord
- Joined
- Apr 23, 2006
- Messages
- 202
If you want history and gaming for WWII, use Hearts of Iron. Play the 1936 scenario so they get the history to the buildup to the war. There's 1000's of historical popups as you play the game.
Phallus
Freudian Slip
Of course this sort of thing has persisted throughout history, but the reason I didn't target North Korea (for example) is because provocative language is to be expected from a small isolated dictatorship. The USA, however, is a democratic superpower and politicians shouldn't get away with it. Even though our prime minister has firmly sided himself with Bush, he's obliged to keep the "crusade against evil" language to a minimum if he wants to retain an ounce of credibility. British leaders don't rage against the forces of evil because we've long since realised it would be hypocritical.
Walt Disney once accused two employees of communism because they didn't go to church, so if anything Mickey is a brother in arms.
I am also a history teacher, and I have used your maps several times with great results. Civ is very motivating for teenagers, expecially compared with dull books which they don't bother to read anyway. Next week I am actually doing your civ3 world map in multiplayer in three groups the whole week! The school doesnt have the hardware to support civ4, but maybe in the future I will be able to use these maps too.
Thank you, Rhye, keep up the good work!
I am also a history teacher, and I have used your maps several times with great results. Civ is very motivating for teenagers, expecially compared with dull books which they don't bother to read anyway. Next week I am actually doing your civ3 world map in multiplayer in three groups the whole week! The school doesnt have the hardware to support civ4, but maybe in the future I will be able to use these maps too.
Thank you, Rhye, keep up the good work!
really? that's grand!
