Rigging Elections- Waste of A Spy?

[Cicerosaurus]

Just to get a few thoughts on the above. Playing on King level as Morocco.

I had two spies in CS's aligned with Rome. After two elections being rigged, and my influence being less than 100 behind Rome, the chances of a successful coup were 0% and 9 % respectively.

It strikes me that rather than having them sit on their blots and achieve nothing they'd be better served "schmoozing" in Rome and another city and a better strategy would be to throw money at the CS's.

It's great to be able to use higher ranked spies but you can only play the hand you are dealt and it is difficult to level up your spy in the later game. (I had already losy my ace spies in unsuccessful coups with an 85% chance <shrug>).

Any thoughts?

 

[civ54lyfe]

you can choose Freedom->Covert Action, or wait until you build the National Intelligence Agency, put them on counter-intelligence in your capitol to hopefully whack an enemy spy and get promoted and then put them on CS duty.

 

[redwings1340]

I like throwing money at the city state with the occasional election rigging. If you aren't in the tech lead, always make sure your spies are capturing tech, because that's their best use. If you are in the tech lead though, or you really can only put your spies in one or two effective cities to either steal techs or level up (in your cap), then city state rigging is better than nothing.

It can over time make a difference and save you 1000 gold, especially if you put them in contentious city states. It's not always the most efficient use of spies, but if nobody is spying on you and you are either in the tech lead or have spies left over, it still is pretty useful to put them in election duty.

 

[Cicerosaurus]

Sorry- forgot to mention I already have covert action so it was even more disappointing that the results were minimal.

Redwings, even though I am the tech leader I have had only one theft of technology (you guessed it- Rome) and since then I have built both the Great Firewall and the NIA so chances of anyone attempting to steal is pretty low.

I have found over time that the thefts of technology to boost your own spies tend to come early to midgame. At that stage I normally only have one or two spies, so that they become aces several times over before I get new recruits and can't thieve anything much. Maybe you should be able to start a spy school with your master spy, and leave a recruit there for training for a number of turns for it to gain a promotion.

 

[Zenstrive]

Filling up Patronage policies and assigning spies on CS after industrial era is always a good idea if you want to guarantee diplomatic victory.
Assign them on CS that is far away but not close to a Civ, like on an island of their own. You can steadily build influence on them. If you choose freedom, you can even have positive influences on them. Once you are allied with them and gain + 150 relation points, you can move your spies to other civs.

Ensure you are properly defended and rich in GPT so that you don't have to think much about defences when other civs DOW you, and tp emsire you can still throw money to CS that are close to becoming allies and maintaining the alliances.

Since Diplomatic victory is the easiest non violence victory so far in BNW, doing this will make you even more sure you can win.

 

[Magma_Dragoon]

Covert action just doubles the chance of winning the election, so without a rival spy in the city you already have 100% chance to win. Spies should always be on the move, swapping out tech stealing, vote trading, and election rigging, timing the moves to get the most done. In my current Poland game I've come to appreciate how useful spies can be when I haven't managed yet to dominate the world congress.

 

[Peng Qi]

I find that all activities other than tech stealing are indeed a waste of a spy unless there's no clear leader in the WC. At higher difficulties you don't have enough spies to be faffing about doing anything other than trying to maintain or gain a tech lead.

 

[civ54lyfe]

normally even on high difficulty once you build your NIA you will likely have at least 1 spy in reserve for CS action, unless you're just getting trounced in tech and are that desperate.

 

[Nick Carpathia]

Even on immortal, I don't have any problems becoming the tech leader during the industrial/modern era. In that case, sitting them on their butts as a spy is a total waste, as there's nothing to steal.

Also, I don't think I've ever bothered with the NIA, too many other things to build in my other cities besides Police Stations.

 

[JustinianIV]

I don't know. I tend not to spy a lot. I usually just spy in order to get my spies upgraded so that they rig better. On all difficulty levels, I find that one fully leveled spy is enough to keep around 2-3 CS allies as I send him around rigging. Even if I'm not playing a diplomatic game, I usually have one level 3 spy and a couple of level 2s. These help keep me in the diplom running quite nicely, and I haven't had a problem keeping up with tech.

This means I save money by not throwing them at CSs.

Spying, OTOH, can get you caught and on a tech leader's hit list, not to mention your spy dies.

 

[phillipwyllie]

At the start I steal techs, moving them if the AI complains.
Before the WC is formed spys are useful in CS's if you want to be the host and start to take control like making your ideology the world ideology.
When you choose your ideology spys as diplomats in AI's with no ideology makes sense as you can buy votes to make your ideology the world one(it'll be cheap if they are friendly). If you get that passes then it makes sense to tighten your WC thumbscrew by influencing more CS with vote rigging.

 

[pben]

I found that using them as diplomats against the Zulus and other neighboring warmongers helps quite a bit in delaying war. Otherwise spys are useless.

 

[Glieze]

Rigging elections can quite important if you are lacking gold, yet need just a little boost in influence. Nothing is worse than being 5 influence behind with less than 250 gold.

 

[paralistalon]

I end up using my spies mainly to see where my neighbor's troops are. I like to know when they're trying to accumulate troops near me, and it helps on offense too.

 

[Ravellion]

I think it mostly useful for after you've bought ally status with a CS that was up to that point allied with someone else. A few riggings will then cement your lead, making it unlikely that even a finished quest will remove this ally. Still, I would only do this with strategically very important city states.

 

[Scarpa]

Another thing about rigging elections is the CS election cycle is synchronized and fixed across all CSes. So you can have one spy always in a CS and when you're about 4 turns from an election move any diplomats or 'idle' spies (I keep at least one moving around to peek at AI cities) to CSes to get the rig, then move them out again.

I don't do this ALL the time as it's a bit micromanagey for my tastes, but if I've got a few CSes that have been contentious to keep as allies I try to remember to get a 'free' election rig in.

 

[joshua43214]

If I have a CS in my backyard that would make things awkward if it went to war against me, I will toss a spy in it and leave it there. I do this especially if I need it as an ally for some reason.

Other wise it all depends on the game, I often put all of them in Maritime CS's to get all the food. Other times I use them for schmoozing. I do like to steal with my first spy until I become tech leader though

 

[ToodleElNoodos]

Was gonna say it depends on what CS are there too.

Militaristic CS that provides Keshik or CKN? Spy!

Mercantile CS with the luxury resources I want for WLTKD or quest? Spy!

More faith/food/culture output? Spy!

Usually, if I'm focusing culture, faith, science, or production in my capital; tossing a spy and allying a Maritime CS is helpful. I can use that gold for buying something else.

 

[Cicerosaurus]

Another thing about rigging elections is the CS election cycle is synchronized and fixed across all CSes. So you can have one spy always in a CS and when you're about 4 turns from an election move any diplomats or 'idle' spies (I keep at least one moving around to peek at AI cities) to CSes to get the rig, then move them out again.

I don't do this ALL the time as it's a bit micromanagey for my tastes, but if I've got a few CSes that have been contentious to keep as allies I try to remember to get a 'free' election rig in.

That diminishes your chance of rigging an election though (if another spy is present).

 

[That Other Guy]

If that CS has coal/oil/aluminum and there aren't any other sources near my empire, you bet there's gonna be a spy parked there maintaining ally status.