Ok, I'm playing a succession game right now, but it's nice to know the scenario has gotten interest.
Originally posted by Xen
I suggest makeing deserts unsettleable 
Yes, that'd be a good idea. Maybe also give it a higher than normal movement cost?
Originally posted by Amenhotep7
Aaminion00, where did you get that wonderful grid? I could really use it in my mapmaking!
Thanks! I made it myself. I'll upload it on the bottom of this post, and you can save it. It's pretty helpful.
Originally posted by Amenhotep7
If there is something I could do to help with this scenario, let me know.
Sure, just visit when you can and join in the discussion.
Originally posted by Amenhotep7
Will the Ottomans be the only playable civ in this scen, or can you play as Austria, or Byzantium?
I think it should be like the Middle Ages Conquest, where all the most important civs will be playable. As of right now, that means you can play as Austria, Hungary, Venice, the Ottomans, Mamelukes, the Safivids,
and Byzantium 
Originally posted by SpincruS
As you'd agree, the most important thing we have to decide on before the map would be the time frame in which this scenario will take place. It is about the 'RISE OF THE OTTOMANS', for sure, but rise since when?
The initial rise from becoming a humble state bordering Byzantium to actually having conquered whole Anatolia was actually through several battles with the Byzantines, Serbs and other Turkish states in Anatolia, through purchase of land and diplomatic annexations. Therefore it's actually somewhat boring, if you ask me.
Whenever Tamerlane invaded Anatolia in 1402, then the Ottomans were in lots of turmoil for around 13 years.
The real unstoppable rise of the empire dates right after the end of the 13 year turmoil, also called the Fetret Era (Interregnum in English).
Good points. Regarding the timeframe, there were/are 3 candidates.
1. 1300 - 1500 : a year after the start of Osman's kingdom to 20 years after the first siege of Vienna, a nice 300 1-year turns
2. 1300 - 1683 : a year after the start of Osman's kingdom, to the empires greatest extent
3. 1415 - 1500 : same as option one except starting at your recommended date
4. 1415 - 1683 : same as option two except starting at your recommended date
I wouldn't want to make the Ottoman empire too big in the beginning, I'd like for this to be a bit of a challenge. For example, Hungary and the Mamelukes should both be larger and more powerful in the very beginning. I'd also like to give Byzantium a bit of a fighting chance, so not just Constantinople.
Originally posted by SpincruS
1. Reconquest of Anatolia, the Greek peninsula and the Balkans
Main players:
- Venice (all Mediterranean islands, Venice and Dalmatia)
- Serbia (almost all Balkan peninsula, although this is not exactly accurate)
- Byzantine Empire (Greece [although not all of Greece], Constantinople and also Trebizond, even though it was not part of the Byzantine)
- White Sheep Turks, aka. Akkoyunlu (Iran, Azerbaijan, Armenia, Iraq)
- Murad II is the ruler of the Ottomans. Conquered all these areas. From 1415 to 1451.
Ok, since I'm Bosnian I am familiar with at least this part.
Originally posted by SpincruS
2. Conquest of the Greek Orthodox World
- Byzantine Empire (Constantionple and Greece, Crimea)
- Crimean Mongol States (Crimea, The Golden Horde; they can be put under one name)
- Georgia (Georgia)
- White Sheep Turks (same peninsula)
- Venice
- Mehmed the Conqueror (Fatih Sultan Mehmet) is the ruler of the Ottomans. Conquered all these areas, except Iran. From 1453 to 1481.
That seems about right, but I know next to nothing about the Crimean Mongol States, so if you could provide some basic information on that it'd be great.
Originally posted by SpincruS
3. Conquest of the Islamic World and the Turco-Iranian conflicts
- Mamelukes (all of North Africa and all the coasts of the Mediterranean up to and including Syria)
- Iran (the Safavids)
- Venice
- The Hedjaz (Mecca and Medina) peninsula
- Oman (although not important; could be excluded)
- Bayezid II was the ruler of the Ottomans for the first half, but he was rather passive. Yavuz Sultan Selim (Selim I) was the most active one, conquering all of the Mamelukes. From 1481 to 1512 (Bayezid II) and 1512 to 1520 (Selim I).
The Hejaz will be in there, probably in a locked alliance with the Mamelukes to reflect vassalship. I'm not sure Oman is very necessary for a scenario. We don't want it to get too powerful too quick.
Originally posted by SpincruS
4. Conquest of Hungary, Turco-Venetian conflict, Turco-French alliance and the Turco-Austrian conflict
- Austria (you know...)
- Hungary (It was an autonomous state before it was conquered by the Ottomans, but could be joined up with Austria)
- Poland (there was this "Polish Support" idea going on)
- Venice (as usual)
- France (could be included as an ally of the Turks against Austria, somehow. Just like the "Polish Support" idea. If not, could be excluded).
- Suleiman the Magnificent was the ruler of the Ottomans in all these years. 1520 till 1566.
- Note that Algeria and Tunisia were annexed in this time period by one of the most famous admiral, Hayrettin Pasha (aka. Barbarossa).
Venice, Austria, and Hungary will be included of course. Hungary will remain seperate from Austria, since it was such a powerful medieval state. France is too far away to be included directly, but perhaps the wonder idea could work. With Poland I already explained why I don't like it, but the Polish support wonder, imo should definetly be in.
Originally posted by SpincruS
Keeping in mind that making a perfectly accurate scenario in C3C is almost impossible, I'd say that only major civs should be represented in the scenario (maybe in a generalised form). The different timelines should be considered.
- Veneto (They were always there anyway).
- Austria-Hungary (a war on Hungary would also provoke a war on the Habsburg, even though Hungary was not a part of the Habsburg Dynasty at the time, but it would make sense).
- Mamelukes
- Byzantium (a not-so-powerful civ at the time)
- Iran (although it wasn't present in the beginning, it emerged all of a sudden. Since we can't have triggers in the game, it's also good to include them from the very beginning).
- The White Sheep Turks (they owned all of Iraq, Azerbaijan and Armenia; but not that strong. They also owned Iran initially, but only initially. Very important.)
- The Hejdaz (could include all of the Hedjaz-Yemen peninsula, even though Yemen was autonomous. Excludes Oman, but since Oman never had a conflict with the Ottomans and the Ottomans only saved Oman once from the Portuguese later in history, they can be excluded).
- Northern Mongolian States (Crimea Khaganate, Golden Horde, Astrakhan, etc... Can all be generalized in one state).
- Eastern Turco-Mongolian States (the Chagatai, Uzbek, Khazak, Altai, etc, etc, etc. can be combined into one single state. Otherwise there will be too much to cope with).
- Serbia (representing the Balkan states).
- Moldavia? (Representing the Northern Balkan - Black Sea states)
Any additions, etc?
There was a map, of what I originally had in mind for the scenario, and you can look at it
here. Obviously some changes will be made. The situation in the middle east and Asia is open to any ideas people have, since I'm not the familiar with the states of the Middle East between the Crusades and Ottoman rule. With Europe I like the general layout, but one or two may be taken out if people wish.
Originally posted by SpincruS
One more thing; the word "Istanbul" was ONLY used among the Turkish folk up until 1923, when the Republic of Turkey was founded. It was always formally named as Constantinople (or Constantiniye).
Ah, didn't know that. That's good... I was wondering what to do about the city's name changes.
Originally posted by mrtn
aaminion, why did you put forest in the delta? shouldn't that be marsh instead?
Well yes, but I was all but copying from the existing firaxis made maps of the regions. Either way I can understand their logic, since if that land was swamp it would be next to worthless, and that's the heart of Mameluke country.
Originally posted by SpincruS
Lybia, Tunisia and Algeria played an important role, but I don't think they can be mimicked in C3C. So placing Bedouins beyond the borders of the Mamelukes sounds like a fine idea. However these barbarians should be somewhat relatively tougher ones so that they wouldn't be overrun by a regular swordsman sort of unit.
Yes, I completely agree about the bedouins. There is a unit... an Arabic camel rider with a riffle that could fit this purpose. Perhaps making them invisible would do the trick?
Originally posted by SpincruS
In addition to this, deserts should cost extra movement, which only the Ottoman and maybe the Iranian horsemen can ignore. The reasoning behind this is obvious I'd say. I don't actually know if this is necessary, but the Mamelukes were conquered through some sort of a blitzkrieg, some sort of a spearhead tactic by massive Turkish horsemen. The Mamelukes, when they were founded, had strong cavalry, but not when they confronted the Ottomans, AFAIK.
Yes, deserts should cost 2 movement points as I said, and I agree some units should be able to disregard this. Originally I thought that the Hejaz should be able to do this with a light camel rider, but we could think of doing something similar for the Iranians (and Ottomans as well). As far as the Mameulkes go, I think the way to simulate that might be to give them very good offensive units, but relatively weak defensive ones. Their core unit would probably be the camel riding rifflemen, who would have a very high attack (lets say even higher than the Sipahi), but a very low defense (1 or 2), like all of their units. That way it would all depend on who attacked first. To simulate the blitzkrieg speed of the war more, perhaps we could have certain key unit-producing resources be available to only a few cities.
), it sounds fine. We have the Slavic horsemen and all as units, too! 
otherwise it seems like double handling...
