Rockband or Entertainer for Civ7?

[Evie]

Pilgrimage was absolutely tourism by modern standards, even if the reward was, for lack of better term, "spiritual bonus points" rather than "Kodak memories." Donations from pilgrims were big business, and many religious communities supported themselves by selling holy trinkets to pilgrims so they could say "I went on the pilgrimage to such-and-such a sacred place." It's no coincidence that the Vatican ramped up the pressure on selling indulgences around the same time they cracked down on the excesses of the Late Medieval pilgrimage industry.

How do you say "My friend went to Jerusalem and all I got was this Holy keychain" in latin?

 

[Zaarin]

How do you say "My friend went to Jerusalem and all I got was this Holy keychain" in latin?

Google Translate says, "Amicus meus ivit Hierosolymam et omnia quae accepi a clavibus sanctae catenae," but it looks reasonably legitimate based on my limited knowledge of Latin. I can do a little better with Hebrew: חברי הלך לירושלים וביחיד נתן לי מחזיק המפתחות הקדוש הזה. Had to nab the term for "keychain" from Israeli Hebrew.

 

[ehecatzin]

Yeah, I'm also of the opinion that they shouldn't return, I don't think rockbands acomplish anything gameplay wise that the other great artist types couldn't do. It's just a chore to get them around the map, and the spammy sound bite doesn't help one bit to make them less annoying.

 

[BuchiTaton]

Great Musicians could do the role of "Rock Bands", no need to keep the later. Export cultural influence could be done by Manufactured Goods like Textiles, Ceramics, Jewelry and Liquors from the Workshops, Albums, Movies and VideoGames from the Studios. Also Cuisine could be exported with Corporations (fast food) or use it to attract tourism to Resorts.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

Google Translate says, "Amicus meus ivit Hierosolymam et omnia quae accepi a clavibus sanctae catenae," but it looks reasonably legitimate based on my limited knowledge of Latin. I can do a little better with Hebrew: חברי הלך לירושלים וביחיד נתן לי מחזיק המפתחות הקדוש הזה. Had to nab the term for "keychain" from Israeli Hebrew.

Ah, but can you fit either phrase legibly onto a Holy Keychain?

Great Musicians could do the role of "Rock Bands", no need to keep the later. Export cultural influence could be done by Manufactured Goods like Textiles, Ceramics, Jewelry and Liquors from the Workshops, Albums, Movies and VideoGames from the Studios. Also Cuisine could be exported with Corporations (fast food) or use it to attract tourism to Resorts.

Great Musicians is simply an expanded version of Rockbands. Expand it further, to Great Entertainers, as has been suggested, and the category could include everything from Great Musicians like Hayden, Bach, Beethoven, to Great Writers As Lecturers (Oscar Wilde, Charles Dickens, Sam Clemens), Great Singers like Jenny Linn and Caruso, and Great Artists like Leonardo and van Rijn all of whose work was internationally famous and desired.
Manufactured Goods with Cultural Influence goes 'way back. First thing that sprang to my mind was the Classical Greek black and red-figure decorated Pottery, which items were Collector's Pieces exported all over the Mediterranean world, or the Greek metalwork in gold and bronze that was commissioned by the Scythian nobility - Scythian artwork done by Greeks, with a Greek twist on it. Both the metalwork and the pottery 'exported' Greek motifs and design to other cultures, the very definition of Cultural Influence if ever there was one. Much later, Chinese and Japanese designs in textiles, wood, lacquer, and metalwork massively influenced European workers and artists in the Industrial Era: "Victorian" England was full of faux Oriental design and artwork pilfered from the originals
Cuisine is a so-far-unexploited-in-Civ Luxury Good that could tie in with 'Food' resources: a Culture that gets first contact with a new edible, like Maize or Spices, will also 'import' the dishes made from the new 'exotic' foods - the foreign Cuisine. This doesn't take a corporation, but may take an expanded 'palate' of Resources in the game: Peppers, Potato and Tomato come to mind, which were all imports from the Americas that dramatically changed the 'native' cuisine of other countries from south China to India to Europe. More individual Spices like Nutmeg, Cinnamon, Saffron, Cumin, etc could also dramatically expand the potential for Foreign Cuisine as a cultural Force.

 

[Patine]

Much later, Chinese and Japanese designs in textiles, wood, lacquer, and metalwork massively influenced European workers and artists in the Industrial Era: "Victorian" England was full of faux Oriental design and artwork pilfered from the originals

The, "fine CHINA," in the cupboard.

 

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

The, "fine CHINA," in the cupboard.

in Empire Total War. There's a newsprint saying that Chinese Porcelain can now be made in Europe by early 18c.
1. When should 'Entertainers' appear? and should we also includes Circus and 'swindler' like P.T Barnum ?

"Every man should make his son learn some useful trade or profession, so that in these days of changing fortunes … they may have something tangible to fall back upon."

2. What effects should they do? IRL Entertainers aren't really inducing tourism to their respective country of origin (only diehard fans did visit their homecountries on special occasions, like Newyear countdown at Sydney Harbor that some years Kylie Minogue did do this herself (or permitted organizers to use her songs and backdrops in that event, i'd say BOTH). what they do in worldtour is earning cash from host countries they did gigs. while host countries may get foreign tourist visits. (I did experience this personally several years ago))
3. How should this unit be made?

 

[Zaarin]

Ah, but can you fit either phrase legibly onto a Holy Keychain?

The Hebrew, probably. The Latin, perhaps not.

When should 'Entertainers' appear?

At least as soon as anatomically modern humans appear. Probably earlier.

 

[Phrozen]

Cuisine is a so-far-unexploited-in-Civ Luxury Good that could tie in with 'Food' resources: a Culture that gets first contact with a new edible, like Maize or Spices, will also 'import' the dishes made from the new 'exotic' foods - the foreign Cuisine. This doesn't take a corporation, but may take an expanded 'palate' of Resources in the game: Peppers, Potato and Tomato come to mind, which were all imports from the Americas that dramatically changed the 'native' cuisine of other countries from south China to India to Europe. More individual Spices like Nutmeg, Cinnamon, Saffron, Cumin, etc could also dramatically expand the potential for Foreign Cuisine as a cultural Force.

I believe only really started happening during the 18th century with distinct recipes and cuisines, as actual cookbooks started appearing around that time, rather than ingredients only being exported to different countries. Like Austrian bakers heading to Paris and the British spreading curry to pretty much everywhere they had colonies. Before that it was usually a fusion as an example: American, Canadian, and Mexican cuisine adapting Native recipes and ingredients and also incorporating things from later immigrant populations into the national or regional cuisine. Cajun and to a lesser extent Creole cuisine is a good example of that. Even today with mixed populations you get fusion like Korean-Mexican in Southern California and Viet-Cajun in East Texas.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

I believe only really started happening during the 18th century with distinct recipes and cuisines, as actual cookbooks started appearing around that time, rather than ingredients only being exported to different countries. Like Austrian bakers heading to Paris and the British spreading curry to pretty much everywhere they had colonies. Before that it was usually a fusion as an example: American, Canadian, and Mexican cuisine adapting Native recipes and ingredients and also incorporating things from later immigrant populations into the national or regional cuisine. Cajun and to a lesser extent Creole cuisine is a good example of that. Even today with mixed populations you get fusion like Korean-Mexican in Southern California and Viet-Cajun in East Texas.

But in Civ-terms, it is precisely the foreign Ingredients that can be traded with Cultural Influence going with them, which is what makes the term 'cuisine' a bit of a misnomer technically, but still a reasonable over-arching term to cover what we are talking about: foreign influences in Food ranging from complete recipes to individual ingredients so different (like tomato or potato) that they change many 'native' dishes completely.
And, come to think of it, the potato is a good example: the thinly-sliced fried potato known variously as French-Fred Potato in the USA, Pomme frits in Germany, 'chips' in England, was originally an experimental French concoction fed to, among others, the American minister to France, one T. Jefferson, who brought the recipe back to the USA, from where it went back to Europe and international standing. In this case, regardless of the actual origin, the dish is considered American largely because of its association with American fast-food franchises in the 20th century, which ties the whole concept back with the Corporations, if we so desire and as @BuchiTaton suggested.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

The Hebrew, probably. The Latin, perhaps not.


At least as soon as anatomically modern humans appear. Probably earlier.

It has been hypothesized that the ability to make other humans laugh may have been one of the first great 'skills' not directly related to obtaining food and avoiding becoming food. Comics are welcome everywhere.

 

[Phrozen]

But in Civ-terms, it is precisely the foreign Ingredients that can be traded with Cultural Influence going with them, which is what makes the term 'cuisine' a bit of a misnomer technically, but still a reasonable over-arching term to cover what we are talking about: foreign influences in Food ranging from complete recipes to individual ingredients so different (like tomato or potato) that they change many 'native' dishes completely.
And, come to think of it, the potato is a good example: the thinly-sliced fried potato known variously as French-Fred Potato in the USA, Pomme frits in Germany, 'chips' in England, was originally an experimental French concoction fed to, among others, the American minister to France, one T. Jefferson, who brought the recipe back to the USA, from where it went back to Europe and international standing. In this case, regardless of the actual origin, the dish is considered American largely because of its association with American fast-food franchises in the 20th century, which ties the whole concept back with the Corporations, if we so desire and as @BuchiTaton suggested.

The only exception to this seems to be alcohol. Wine was heavily traded and the Reinheitsgebot laws were partially put in place to prevent competition from brewers in other regions and countries.

 

[Zaarin]

The only exception to this seems to be alcohol. Wine was heavily traded and the Reinheitsgebot laws were partially put in place to prevent competition from brewers in other regions and countries.

Wine was so widely traded that, while we have a pretty good idea where the product originated from (Georgia), we're no closer to figuring out what language the word originated in--but all the languages around the Mediterranean share it: Proto-Indo-European *woyh₁nom, Proto-Semitic *wayn-, Proto-Kartvelian *ɣwin-, Hattic findu-...Any one of them (or none of them) could be the source of the Wanderwort.

 

[Patine]

Wine was so widely traded that, while we have a pretty good idea where the product originated from (Georgia), we're no closer to figuring out what language the word originated in--but all the languages around the Mediterranean share it: Proto-Indo-European *woyh₁nom, Proto-Semitic *wayn-, Proto-Kartvelian *ɣwin-, Hattic findu-...Any one of them (or none of them) could be the source of the Wanderwort.

So, who discovered the trick of first distilling spirits that were safe to drink without blindness or almost instant death?

 

[Zaarin]

So, who discovered the trick of first distilling spirits that were safe to drink without blindness or almost instant death?

I don't know for certain, but there are references to grappa in the Hebrew Bible (translated "strong drink" in the KJV) so that puts a terminus ante quem of ~500 BCE.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

So, who discovered the trick of first distilling spirits that were safe to drink without blindness or almost instant death?

The earliest mention of distillation (not drinks, though) is from Akkadian texts around 1200 BCE. The Alchemist Zosimos of Panopolis in Roman Egypt was using a primitive Still by the 3rd century CE.
The earliest reference to the distillation of wine is Arabic (!) from the 800s CE, and by the 12th century CE (drinkable) alcohol is being distilled from wine in both Europe and China and in India by the 14th century.
The earliest reference to a specific strong alcoholic drink is from Germany in 1437 CE., where they describe "burned wine" - brandy.

However, much earlier 'strong drink' is possible in the right climate: Freeze distillation can be used to produce higher alcohol content in fermented beverages. basically, since alcohol freezes at much lower temperatures than water, put the fermented beverage outside in freezing weather and toss the ice that forms on top. Do that several nights in a row, and the result is a liquid with a much higher alcohol concentration than possible from simple fermentation. The result, if you start with apple cider, is Applejack, starting with Wine is Winter Wine, from Beer get Ice Beer.
Of course, this technique is unlikely to have been invented in any of the early 'civilizations', since except at high elevations, sub-freezing temperatures are uncommon in the Mediterranean basin or the Near East, and I know of no written references to the technique from either Classical Greece or Rome.

 

[Zaarin]

However, much earlier 'strong drink' is possible in the right climate: Freeze distillation can be used to produce higher alcohol content in fermented beverages. basically, since alcohol freezes at much lower temperatures than water, put the fermented beverage outside in freezing weather and toss the ice that forms on top. Do that several nights in a row, and the result is a liquid with a much higher alcohol concentration than possible from simple fermentation.

Huh. I'm a coffee nerd, and baristas use this technique to concentrate the cream in milk for milk beverages like lattes, cappuccinos, and cortados. Pretty much everyone at barista championships uses this technique.

 

[reddishrecue]

Entertainers used to provide luxuries to cities. The more entertainers the more luxuries. Yeah it'll stun your growth a little and your food surplus but it'll keep your citizens producing AFAIK in civilization 1 or 2.
Rock bands are new and all they do is provide culture... for victory not just a relief of a case of unhappiness.

 

[reddishrecue]

The only exception to this seems to be alcohol. Wine was heavily traded and the Reinheitsgebot laws were partially put in place to prevent competition from brewers in other regions and countries.

Wine was known as a good profit. Selling wine would make you good income. Other forms of wine also are better for citizens that are of higher social classes. Imported wine for example. It's a luxury in civilization when citizens don't want to produce and citizens get mad faster at the higher levels.