RPS: Firaxis On How Civ: Beyond Earth Really Isn’t Alpha Centauri

[Lord Shadow]

Rock Paper Shotgun impressions & interview

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2014/05/20/civilization-beyond-earth-impressions-interview

 

[kwidem]

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[Mr.Misfit]

I took this one away. It really tells a story.

McDonough: I’m much more irreverent when it comes to Civ. My favorite Civ was Civilization Revolution, actually. There’s a drama there and a speed there and a liveliness that the core Civ kind of lacks, and we’re try to bring some of that into this project.

But...I like Civ slow...why does everything nowadays have to be on speed?

Also...

RPS: One of your big influences is Alpha Centauri, as you have made very known. For one, why append that onto Civ? Why not make it it’s own thing, and just do an Alpha Centauri successor? Why make it a Civilization game specifically?

Miller: That’s an easy answer, but I think even if we had the Alpha Centauri IP available I don’t know if we would’ve decided to do a sequel to it. I mean this is really such a different game, and if you look back at Alpha Centauri and how it’s a companion to Civ 2, or is it Civ 3? It’s a very good companion to those games but I think what we brought to the table with this game is what we’ve learned in the decade since we made that.

I think fundamentally Beyond Earth is a much more optimistic perspective on our future in space. I mean, in Alpha Centauri you get to a planet on the Starship Unity and you’re already at each others throats. It’s kind of a pessimistic way to start everything, but this is a much more optimistic view. And of course there’s conflict, but we wanted to present this aspirational product, and that has influenced a lot of the decision making.

And of course we love Alpha Centauri, we pay homage to that all over the place in this game, but it is a very different game. I’d even, I mean you could say spiritual successor to Alpha Centauri, because we built this game for fans of that game, but it’s different enough that I don’t even think that you can put it in the same [lineage]. It’s a Civ in space, that’s about it. Beyond the winks and nods.

SMAC taught many of those very lessons which Firaxis did not learn until Civ 4 and even then, not all of them. Furthermore, SMAC has a realistic outlook on the way humanity works. Because even in space, we won´t change. But apparently they (Miller & McDonough) didn´t get that same message from the game as I did.

 

[kwidem]

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[Lorizael]

Maybe it's a consequence of the SF I've been exposed to, but I've seen way too many dystopias out there. SF on TV and in movies almost always paints a dim picture of technology. Dystopian fiction is a staple of SF literature.

Personally, I'm a lot more interested in stories about how humanity can change into something new and interesting. It might be bad or it might be good, but it shouldn't be predetermined from the start. I like the direction CivBE seems to be taking because it looks at what humanity might transform into rather than assuming technology will be evil while we all play the game on our portable magic boxes connected to all sources of information.

 

[Lord Tirian]

But...I like Civ slow...why does everything nowadays have to be on speed?

Well, if this means it has better turn times in the late game...

Seriously, though, I think this is more about the fact that Civ is slow in the sense that a lot of turns pass between genuinely important decision points.

With him liking Civ:Rev's asymmetric balance and "drama", I don't get the vibe that he wants a game that can be played in 30mins. I rather get the vibe that he wants a game where every turn feels like an important point where mistakes and decisions will have long-lasting consequences.

Less of these "nothing to do apart from shuffling units and press next turn" moments.

 

[Mr.Misfit]

Well, if this means it has better turn times in the late game...

Seriously, though, I think this is more about the fact that Civ is slow in the sense that a lot of turns pass between genuinely important decision points.

With him liking Civ:Rev's asymmetric balance and "drama", I don't get the vibe that he wants a game that can be played in 30mins. I rather get the vibe that he wants a game where every turn feels like an important point where mistakes and decisions will have long-lasting consequences.

Less of these "nothing to do apart from shuffling units and press next turn" moments.

Maybe, but for some the turns in-between can give their own sense of weight. A long number of turns in which I don´t have as much to do as in those few really critical ones only make the critical ones that much more important. Perhaps is´t just a personal preference.

 

[Lord Tirian]

Maybe, but for some the turns in-between can give their own sense of weight. A long number of turns in which I don´t have as much to do as in those few really critical ones only make the critical ones that much more important. Perhaps is´t just a personal preference.

*shrug* - I think that's what Marathon speed is for (which I enjoy, but in a different way than playing a standard game). It's always easier to stretch out the game than compress it, so I'm happy with them aiming for more tense, more eventful turns as a baseline.

 

[Matthew.]

Less of these "nothing to do apart from shuffling units and press next turn" moments.

The length of turn times on slow CPU's aside, this has never bothered me as much as some others. Take a game like simcity or europa universalis, and the turns where "nothing happens" is no different than that dead space in between events in those real time games.

That dead space exists so when stuff does happen, it has time process and you have time to deal with it. It is the same reason I avoid quick speed in Civ 5. By the time your military units reach the enemy, they are already outdated. Want to move that settler to that coastal colony 16 turns away? By the time it gets there the game is practically finished!

 

[PhilBowles]

Maybe it's a consequence of the SF I've been exposed to, but I've seen way too many dystopias out there. SF on TV and in movies almost always paints a dim picture of technology. Dystopian fiction is a staple of SF literature.

Personally, I'm a lot more interested in stories about how humanity can change into something new and interesting. It might be bad or it might be good, but it shouldn't be predetermined from the start. I like the direction CivBE seems to be taking because it looks at what humanity might transform into rather than assuming technology will be evil while we all play the game on our portable magic boxes connected to all sources of information.

I have to say I'm not sure where the sense that the game will be especially optimistic comes from; sure, Firaxis has said that, but the victory conditions (other than Contact) we have boil down to: conquering and subjugating the new planet; conquering and subjugating Earth; turning the new planet into a gigantic slum for Earth's refugees; and transcendence - that's basically the same 'lose your identity and become a gestalt planetary consciousness' that was already in Alpha Centauri. None of that seems an especially positive outcome.

As for the interview, the most promising bit for me is the comment that they plan to make the game more about adapting to the game environment than about build orders. Not sure if they'll succeed, or how, since this is a longstanding issue with Civ as a series, but if they pull it off hopefully it will inform later incarnations.

 

[Lord Shadow]

turning the new planet into a gigantic slum for Earth's refugees;

To be honest, I see the Purity victory more like the concept of Terra Nova, the TV series in which humans time-travel from a heavily polluted, depleted Earth to start over 85 million years into the past on a different timeline. In Beyond Earth, it could be a slum if all the Terrans are hastily (and likely forcefully) relocated, too quickly for proper infrastructure to be set up for the immigrants. But unlike the Terra Nova scenario, in which people were sent in batches by the way, there's already an advanced human society at the destination. It could go either way, but any slum-like conditions would theoretically be temporary, until the infrastructure construction catches up.

 

[PhilBowles]

To be honest, I see the Purity victory more like the concept of Terra Nova, the TV series in which humans time-travel from a heavily polluted, depleted Earth to start over 85 million years into the past on a different timeline. In Beyond Earth, it could be a slum if all the Terrans are hastily (and likely forcefully) relocated, too quickly for proper infrastructure to be set up for the immigrants. But unlike the Terra Nova scenario, in which people were sent in batches by the way, there's already an advanced human society at the destination. It could go either way, but any slum-like conditions would theoretically be temporary, until the infrastructure construction catches up.

The RPS interview specifically describes it as displacing the people who are already there, so I doubt it's intended to be that optimistic, and since the whole idea of Purity appears to be to stagnate, insisting on a reliance on tried and tested technology to isolate them from their new planetary environment, I suspect the best that can be expected is that there'll be an evacuation from a used-up planet only to start the process all over again.

I doubt any of the victory screens will be of Civ V's trumphal "You have triumphed over your rivals" variety. "More optimistic" than Alpha Centauri doesn't necessarily imply an optimistic future.

 

[Mr.Misfit]

SMAC has Transcendence as a victory option. Can there be anything more fulfilling or optimistic than the possibility to truly transcend the boundaries we are given?

 

[PhilBowles]

SMAC has Transcendence as a victory option. Can there be anything more fulfilling or optimistic than the possibility to truly transcend the boundaries we are given?

When the form of transcedence is essentially imposed (particularly when it's a survival tactic required to avoid complete destruction), and results in a loss of individual identity?

It's a long time since I played AC all the way through, and don't remember much of the plot beyond the basic outline, so I'm not altogether clear why it's seen as a dystopia. Some of the factions certainly derived from assorted tropes of dystopian fiction, but on the other hand others were utopian fantasies (like the Mars trilogy-derived Greens and Cult of Planet), while others like the Nautilus Pirates were downright silly. The Cyborgs could be seen as dystopian, but their diplomacy dialogue presented them as semi-comical.

 

[Lord Tirian]

SMAC has Transcendence as a victory option. Can there be anything more fulfilling or optimistic than the possibility to truly transcend the boundaries we are given?

"You despaired when Planet invited [winning faction leader] to join its dominant self, and for a decade or more you moped about the bizarre virtual reality of the Undermind with no coherent purpose, a lost spirit unable to die."

 

[TheCabal]

McDonough: ...My favorite Civ was Civilization Revolution, actually.

...... what-is-going-on... I want to travel back in time!!

 

[Mozzington]

They are too young, too inexperienced and are going to f**k this up. It will of course be saved by an expansion or two from the likes of Ed but will be so much time wasted that the game won't reach it's potential.

 

[kwidem]

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[Mozzington]

I don't know, hope you are right but a few things:

"Co-lead designers". War and peace was not written by a party of co-writers.

"Favourite game CIV REV". Enough said.

"It's just Civ in space". Excitement killer and confirms what I already thought I knew that this is just as CIV5 skin that's going to cost 30 quid.

And the appearance of it, ugh...is this Civ or Avatar? I seriously worry about their "love" of SMAC and if it even exists at all.

 

[Senethro]

Bunch of moaners.

The problem is that game designers like games (plural) and can see the good features of even bad games and enthuse about what worked and what they'd like to see tried a different way. The most hardcore of fans are usually bitter jaded nerds who only play one game/series and moan about how every other game isn't their favorite one. This gets in the way of them enjoying innovative sequels or sometimes even whole genres of games.

Firaxis is on a roll right now, with Civ5 expansions and XCOM being great. Have a little faith and stop overanalysing press releases for prophecies of doom.