RR MOD : Retreat and Retaliate version 0.5 (using the sdk)

[nevare]

download it :
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/RR.zip (1.2 Mo)
http://www.badongo.com/file/562944 (1.2 Mo)

this mod change completly the way the fights go :

First : all units (except animals) have 100 % chance to withdraw from combat. so a unit can only be kill if it is attacked

Second : the moves of most units have been increased. light infentry move by 2 and heavy infentry by 1 (no new unit though), mounted units by 3 or 4

Third : when a siege type unit attacks if the defencer is not a siege unit the attacker is not damaged. when a ranged unit attack, it is damaged only if the defender is another ranged unit or a siege unit.
note that all units are still damaged when they defend.
and that a unit not being damaged doesn't mean it always wins the fight. it's a normal fight. but at the end the range unit withdraw if it loose the fight and get his health back (to the level before the attack) in any case.


Of course I have tried to modify the strengh of all units in consequence but it will definitly need some tuning.

here is the idea :
the phalanx (instead of spearman) is slow and powerfull outside of cities. the axeman is fast and cheap. the swordsman is good to attack cities and fast. the archer is fast and weak except to defend cities. and to domage units. don't forget it doesn't receive damage when it attacks a close combat unit.

a phalanx is the stronger outside of cities. but units can harrass it : attack and then retreat so that the phalanx cannot attack the next turn. so even if the swordsman has little chance to win the fight he has no chance to die. while the phalanx has a chance to.
mouted archer can easily harrass heavy infentry (phalanx) while it cannot harrass light infentry which have 2 moves.
so you can see mobility is as important as strengh when you have 100 % chance to withdraw from combat.
mounted units are not very strong, well knight as not bad but in general mounted units are not as strong as foot and will have to compensate with their mobility. for example combining phalanx and mounted units should be very usefull to fight swordsmen.

here are some details about the beginning of the game :

the phalanx is slow ( 1 move ) but strong : 6
moreover the phalanx is not adapted to fight in cities. (supposedly)
so they have -50 % in attack and defence of cities
they are already veeeeery strong so we need to compensate

axeman : power 3, move 2, + 50 % vs melee units

archer : power 1, move 2, 5 first attacks + 200 % defend cities

oh and mounted archer are now archer combat type, as is cavalery. (except cosaks)

What needs to be done :
- debuging the probable bugs
- balancing units
- thinking of a cool modern age (I modified modern units too ... but well ... it's not as funny and strategic as the beginning is : all units are range units at the end...)
- modifying the artificial intelligence (if I or anyone else ever has the courage to do so)

Possibilities :
- new units, new tech, including other mods (but no more than a few)
I'm open to any sugestion, have fun trying it !

ps : I modified the C++ code to do the part about archers not being damaged when they atttack close combat units.
the source of the modified file is included in the mod. and modifications can be found easily by searching MODIFICATION in it

ps2 : help would be most welcome !

ps3 : after finishing this mod I would like to work on a fantasy mod using those concept but it's a lot of work when
you have to make new units, civilizations ... so I decided to first try those concept on a more simple mod.
I would like a fantasy mod with few units and civilization/races. but civilizations with all units completly different from each others and building and technologies too.
so that each civilization is strong against some and weak against other.

ps4 : if people are motivated on making a mod based on the song of ice and fire, or the wheel of time. I'm willing to help !

ps5 : if anyone wants a mod with just siege units that are not damaged when they attack ask me I can do it in 10 mn
my email is nevare.stark@gmail.com

 

[nevare]

reserved in case

 

[J_Period]

very interesting, I'll test and maybe we'll adapt this to the WHFB mod (with your permission of course)

 

[Khai]

This might be pretty interesting...how does the AI handle it though? It seems like the mod could give the player a huge advantedge...

 

[nevare]

it gives an advantage to the player indeed. but the IA is not as bad as we could imagine. simply cause this mod makes you lose less (no ?) units when your have more units than the other. so don't imagine you can easily attack an IA that has more unit than you have. it will usually crush you.

the ai uses siege units nearly as it should. but it uses range units mosly for defence even if it has a role to play in offence too.

and you can include it in your own mods of course. but you might want to wait until it has been tested a bit, because there are probably some bugs left.

 

[Salamandre]

People seems to forget one important detail: Retaliate works ONLY when you have 1 move left. If your blitz cavalry (example) attacks 2 times, it has 0% retaliate chances the second time.

 

[nevare]

first it does work with units that have only one move like catapults. and I just tried it with a swordsman that have 2 moves (in my mod) and he does retreat even if he has only one move left when he attacks.

I'm not sure I tried with cavalry though. or maybe it's the blitz thing : the second attack can't retreat ... well anyway I've played a bit and units have always withdrawn. and I haven't seen any conditions on the number of moves in the C++ code (but it could be someplace I didn't modify I admit)

 

[Salamandre]

Are you sure the catapult and swordman werent in your land and on a road? because Firaxis notified that for retaliation you need more than one move or beeing on road.

 

[Dom Pedro II]

I can understand giving the archers a lot more first strikes, but what I don't get is how you can have attacking ranged units receive no damage against melee... how could they possibly lose then?

I'm also interested to know: when ranged units attack, will the ranged units in a defending stack automatically be the defenders? And it might be an interesting idea to have some kind of a promotion/bonus for horse archers that negates this and allows them to attack the weakest rather than the strongest unit (against their combat type) in the stack.

 

[nevare]

ranged units receive damage when they are attacked by melee units. but not when they attack.

yes it's a good idea you have ... I may do that later ... but no for now it attacks the strongest units. so sometimes it attacks a melee unit (so if it's a range unit that attack, the melee unit won't domage it) even if there is a ranged unit in the stack. I may correct it later.

 

[Dom Pedro II]

So basically, when it's an archer attacking a melee unit it's an insta-kill? No possible way of losing? Or is it more of a harassing attack that does some damage to the melee unit but leaves it alive?

Because if its the first, it seems a bit overpowered to me. Light infantry was useful, but not as useful as that. I mean, in any battle, archers necessarily take something of a defensive stance. Even if they're the ones who initiated the fighting, they still take a defensive stance and let their enemies come to them, raining arrows down on them the whole time. But this can only work so well... once the enemies close the distance, the archers have to retreat or be slaughtered. So anything more than hit and run tactics for attacking light infantry without damage would be highly problematic I think. To have hit and run tactics, however, would make sense to me because it's akin to the Civ3 artillery that could bombard units on adjacent tiles without having to actually risk combat with them.

Either way, I like what you've done (I tip my hat to anyone who can make anything of the source code) and I look forward to its development. Cheers!

 

[nevare]

no sorry I probably wasn't clear.

when a ranged unit attack a melee unit. it's a normal battle except that at the end of the battle in any cases the range unit get its health back (at the level it was before the attack). (and it always withdraw if it lose, even if it has 0 % chance to withdraw)

you analysis is perfectly right. that's why archer unit are weakened. you must be careful not to get them attacked : you should try to attack and then move back. if in front of you, you have a light infantry it can chase you the next turn with its 2 moves. if it is a heavy infentry it can't.

archer bombard ... except that you make them attack to do so and that if the unit that is attacked is a range unit it can fight back.

 

[Dom Pedro II]

Ah, excellent

That sounds quite good!