Rushing settlers

[BurnPoodle]

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

I don't know what to do , all my games are the same...
I always play at regent level and I get in trouble around 0 AD (where I realize that im far from being the first in score )

I do rush build settlers at the beggining with spearmans... 1-2 per city, and when I get around 10 city I stop because im afraid of falling behind sciences and culture...

what should I do ?! should I continu to build settlers or should I build a little empire with less corruption... I just don't know what to do at that game! it seems to hard..

PLEASE HELP !

 

[WUM]

whatever you do: choose!
a little bit of this and a little bit of that won´t bring you victory.

Either you build an awesome culture with a few awesome cities.
or
You´ll forget all about settlers and build a fine military and conquer one or two civs completely very early on and don´t care so much about corruption. all you do is expand, expand and expand.
or
you´ll set science at zero and just buy your techs, which you´ll immediately trade for other techs and to make financial profits..! You´ll be rich!
or
you´ll go for spacerace and be a great scientific nation. You´ll sell all techs to all civs in the same turn to make money, unless its a tech that (almost) makes it possible to build spaceship-parts.

btw, forget about a histographic victory, it´s not fullfilling if you ask my opinion...

of course building courthouses and the FP will never hurt your empire...

 

[protista]

The few times when I tried to rush settler production, the city remained at the one population level for a significant number of turns, seemingly forever. For this reason, use caution when rushing settler production in a very recently settled city.

 

[knowltok]

Play with the maximum numnber of opponents per map. That way when you expand out to 12 cities you are facing 7 other civs with 11-14 cities instead of 4 with 20 each. In most cases the AI will out expand you no matter what you do (you can keep up to a point, but at higher difficulty levels you don't have a chance). Far better to be one of many equals than the small kid on the block. More opponents also means more options, and I think, more resources. Better chance you can pick on someone weak to get that saltpeter or coal instead of having to take on a goliath.

 

[Rowan]

May be as WUM said;choose.:crazyeyes

 

[BurnPoodle]

Originally posted by WUM

Either you build an awesome culture with a few awesome cities. /QUOTE]

Ok but... when you say a FEW awesome city... what is FEW for you? 10 ? 5 ? 20 ?... and to make those city... should I rush build them? and then concentrate on culture?...

You´ll forget all about settlers and build a fine military and conquer one or two civs completely very early on and don´t care so much about corruption. all you do is expand, expand and expand.

To build that fine military.. its takes how much cities?

you´ll go for spacerace and be a great scientific nation. You´ll sell all techs to all civs in the same turn to make money, unless its a tech that (almost) makes it possible to build spaceship-parts.

Do we have to have lotta cities when going for mass tech?

btw, forget about a histographic victory, it´s not fullfilling if you ask my opinion...

I don't like this too ;cp (even if its the only way I can acheive victory for now hahahaha ;D)



btw, thanks for that reply... its very good ;D
But... What is really important to know, is how much cities to do and when to stop making settlers?...

Thanks

 

[WUM]

Most of the times i build about 5 cities in the beginning. By that time i´m conquering my nearest neighbor... who usually also has about 5 cities.
In those ± 10 cities i build all kinds of cultural improvements, tempels, but rather cathedrals and universties. Untill all those are build there.
I do this through rushbuilding along my border with a possible remaining neighbor. If possible i also build courthouses in the meantime.
Because of this my borders expand so there is no space left for new city-sites for the AI.
Also i assimilate some foreign bordertowns.
( i read about a tip to move you capitol to the border and then assimilate a lot and very fast, but i haven´t tried this yet. Soren of Firaxis reacted and said that he wondered who´d come up with this first, so i guess it works! ).

When everybody is in awe of my culture i researce a lot and sell this to other civs voor a LOT of money. By the time i´m science nr.1 again i go for cavalry, riflemen and railroads.

After that i start conquering the rest of my continent if it isn´t mine allready or i go for ALL resources of coal on the entire world. About 10 cities is good enough for me to start, but be prepared, build up your defense too, before you engage in combat. (most of the times i form an alliance with most other civs against one enemy). Ruling all coal-resources makes conquest far more easy, especially if afterwards you isolate your enemy´s capitol by bombardment and keep it isolated, which makes it almost to easy to run him over since he´s lacking resources and thereby good units.

Sometimes getting all coal-resources is not realistic though, so i keep my original 10 cities + whatever i assimilate, build the FP and go for the spacerace. The techs that make the building of wonders possible can be sold for enormous prices, so if i don´t care about the wonder than i trade it asap. If it´s a tech that almost leads to de spaceship-techs, then i won´t trade 'em to gain time in building it myself.

 

[BurnPoodle]

Ok so, what you mean is that you conquer at the same time that youre going for tech ? Which government is the best for this kind of play?

And how the hell do you build 5 cities and attack him at the same time ?

Thanks again...

 

[BurnPoodle]

And I have another question I forgot in my last reply..

These 5 cities... you build them all with the capital? I mean.. what I do is the following :

(in the capital) :

1 warrior
2 spearman
1 setler
1 spearman
1 settler
1 sperman
1 settler

and so on...

is that the thing to do? or its big crap?

 

[dozenlong]

Too many military units for initial expansion if that is what you are going for--think one warrior, one settler, one warrior, one settler...unless you want to military it, then do nothing but your best offensive unit (and a couple of good defensive units if you have them).

 

[BurnPoodle]

I tried this... but my production was lot higher than my food growing! and I was waiting for the settlers a lot...

 

[Arrian]

I've had a lot of success on Regent, so I'll try and explain what I do.

Obviously, some of this depends on the specifics of the game I've started (how much food is immediately available to my capitol, am I boxed in right away or do I have some room?).

Build list for Capitol:

Warrior
Warrior
Settler

After that, it depends. If I have grain or cows or floodplains so that the city bounces back to pop3 quickly, I continue with

Spearman
Settler
Spearman
Settler (or maybe worker)
Repeat for a while

If not, build a granary (assuming you have pottery).

On a normal map, at the end of the initial land grab, I want to have 20 or so cities - more if possible. Keep in mind that the AI is so land hungry that it will build cities in the gaps in your area. Leave the marginal terrain to them... you will assimilate those cities soon enough through culture. I'd say out my starting 20 cities, maybe 5 or so were built by the AI (in just about every game I've played).

I expand aggressively (but peacefully) and grab as much territory as possible. Rushbuild temples in your new cities asap to expand your borders. Once I've hit the limit of peaceful expansion, it's decision time. Depending on which Civ I'm playing and who my neighbors are, and what the resource/luxury situation is, I may go to war. An early (successful) war can be very, very useful.

Mine things w/your original worker (roads of course). Irrigating is generally useless in Despotism, so get diggin'. This will boost production in your capitol, allowing your settlers to build quicker.

Your new cities, after building their temples, can (again, depending on their food situation and how bad the corruption is) punch out settlers or workers... the latter being key to connecting everything w/roads. Speaking of which, unless it's way out of your way, connect your roads to your neighbor's so you can trade resources w/them. Set up embassies ASAP, as they expand what you can do diplomatically and seem to improve relations overall.

Don't worry about most of the early wonders - you will probably lose them to the AI. If you can get the Great Library (basically, if your capitol has hills around it for production), do so. Shoot for Republic asap (maybe w/a little detour to get literature for libraries, which not only boost science, but provide tons of culture). Monarchy is garbage, ignore it. It takes you just as long to research it as Republic, and Republic beats it hands down.

The wonders don't get crucial until the Middle Ages - Sistine Chapel, Copernicus Obervatory, etc.

Without looking over your shoulder while you play, this is about the best I can do. I hope it helps.

-Arrian

 

[BurnPoodle]

thanks this is very good post!

I have another question...

do you continu building settlers with the capital until you have your 15-20 cities? And is this on standard large or huge maps?

Do you build cities even if the terrain around it is not very good? you take it just for territory? even if the city produce very little or grows like each 20 turns?

And the early war is with warriors? or a little bit later with archers and spearman defending them?

thanks

 

[Arrian]

You're more than welcome. Now, let me see if I can answer your follow-up q's:

Do I continue building settlers in the capitol until the land grab is over? Well, if I have a couple of cities near the capitol (thus low corruption) that have good food production, then no. I can build settlers there, and switch the Cap. to a Wonder or barracks/troops. Fairly often, however, the capitol is the best place for settler production, if it has good food squares.

Map size: Thus far I've played almost exclusively on "Normal" size maps, w Continents/70%water/normal/normal/5billion, with one game on a Large map with 80% water (so similar amounts of land available).

I tend to shoot for luxury resources (and strategic resouces, once I can "see" them) with my settlers. Good terrain also. Bad terrain w/o resources (desert/jungle/tundra) may well be useful later for strategic resources such as oil, and if there are no really good city sites left, go for it. Otherwise, as I said, the AI will. If it is surrounded by your cities, or near your capital, you'll get it at some point (provided you pay attention to culture). I have deliberately built on marginal terrain if it helps to block another civs expansion.

No, I have never fought a war with warriors - sounds funny, huh? - although a friend of mine did, and captured the enemy capitol like 10 turns into the game by winning a warrior v. warrior fight. Early wars depend on a number of factors:

1) What civ are you playing? Does your UU come into play?

2) Do you have horses? Do you have iron?

I think the lowest-tech war I have yet fought was using archer and spearmen - and that was on chieftan (it was my 2nd game ever). Mobile units are very, very valueable, so if you're going to fight, definitely build some, even if the best you can do is horsemen (even if you look at the a/d and see that a swordsman has a better attack value). They can hit and retreat, charge in a break road and then run away, or straight up attack. They can also catch and kill the enemy's mobile units. If the enemy lacks horses, you have the advantage (unless you're dealing with the Aztecs or Zulu, of course).

If your special unit is an ancient one, so much the better. Build a bunch and rush your enemy (mmm, Mounted Warriors, mmm). NEVER build "regular" units. Always take the time to build barracks and produce veterans. Trust me, it's worth it.

The AI is better at fighting than the AI in CIV II, but it's still AI, and hence it has weaknesses. It does not defend particularly well - it's actually better on the attack. Remember, however, if you leave a unit that is either beat up or has a low defense strength (horsemen or archers, for instance) out in the open, the AI will beeline for it and kill it. Bring some spearmen.

-Arrian

 

[Sam_Catchem]

OK..Here is what I try to do early in the game.

Warrior and go explore
Warrior to defend
Warrior to move with
Settler
Temple
Spearmen
worker (build roads to that new city and it get it going asap!)

I build temples, barracks, and so forth to wait for the pop to to three or more so I can pop out another settler. THere is no point wasting shields. Temples first to expand borders and barracks or granaries next pending on if I plan to go for the pyramids or not.

In the next city I build a spearman right away..and if the pop goes to 3 or higher..then settler and move him with the warrior that is already there...then I build a temple...and wait for the pop to go up again.

That is what I have been doing..the key for me is to be able to build 2 good cities right away and hopefully close together..so I can pump out settlers and worker and get expanding.

It seems to work..pending on the terrrain.

 

[knowltok]

I think most of you are expanding too slowly. I do warrior then settler, then spearman than settler. At any point I can build a granery I do so after the first warrior. You really don't need to escort your first setler and you are going to want the city close enough that the worker and the warrior have already scouted the close locations. You can get away with light defense for a while. This probably won't work in multiplayer though. The granery though is of huge importance. With it you can grow fast enough to pump out an unbroken stream of settlers. Don't improve more than two of your local squares initially. your capital shouldn't get above 3 for a long time, and will only spend a few turns at 3. Your worker can be used to build the roads to your future city sites. This will speed your settlers up which will have the effect of founding cities sooner.

I do agree with everyone who says that you should found for position and special resources. Good long term growth areas come in third. I may have to try letting a nation I plan to conquer settle cities in my area. I don't trust the culture thing in the early game, and you never know when things can go wrong for you, but if you have a tough early race it could work. Persians come to mind.

 

[Sam_Catchem]

You have been Lucky then. I have had MANY unprotected settlers stumble upon barbarian and get clocked. That is why I stopped. It has slown down my growth..but nothing hurt more than having some barb take out your first settler. Ouch! That blows. You never know when those guys are going to come out..it is random. Nothing slows down growth than having that first dude go down...you are stuck with a pop 1 city twiddling your thumbs.

Also..I noticed you waste shields if you alternate between spearmen and settler. Sometimes it takes say 10 turns to produce a settler..but your city doesn't grow for 7 turns. If you are at a city pop1 you have to wait 14 turns til the settler is actually produced. I watched it happened and stopped that none sense..a good temple or barracks goes a looong way. Your city won't produce the settler until it reaches size 3 anyways. SO why waste?

 

[omichyron]

first: build a warrior
second: build a settler
third: build a barracks
fourth: just start building settlers until there is no room for more settlement. Do this at all of your cities. The AI doesn't take undefended cities (unless you are already at war), so you can let each new one build its own warrior.
fifth: start building military units, mostly your special unit if it exists at this era.
sixth: squash your nearest foe. After this point I generally wait for cavalry to attack other enemies, but if someone is particularly close and holds resources you need, attack them while you have knights (or war elephants).

 

[knowltok]

I disagree with spending time on a barracks unless you are milataristic or you know you are going to war extremely early. You are right about settlers being vulnerable, I don't send any out after the first unprotected. There is one thing to note though. Your escorting unit doesn't neccessarily need to stay to defend the city. Barbarians may still come before a warrior is produced, but even if they do, the cost is not nearly so high once the city is built. The escorting unit can be used to scout out a new area and screen for the next settler. I normally settle close by only allowing resources to alter a good solid border. I like placing my new cities so that they often get more than the one space radius. If you place them close enough to an existing city you will get extra radius to connect the borders. Overlap doesn't concern me unless it is excessive. It is a problem I won't have to deal with until well after sanitation, and then it is a small problem.

 

[BurnPoodle]

Originally posted by omichyron
first: build a warrior
second: build a settler
third: build a barracks
fourth: just start building settlers until there is no room for more settlement. Do this at all of your cities. The AI doesn't take undefended cities (unless you are already at war), so you can let each new one build its own warrior.
fifth: start building military units, mostly your special unit if it exists at this era.
sixth: squash your nearest foe. After this point I generally wait for cavalry to attack other enemies, but if someone is particularly close and holds resources you need, attack them while you have knights (or war elephants).

Beurk!!!!....

Building settlers without escort...
are you playing with sedentary barbarians at chieftain?