Sabotage wonder doesn't work?

[Chunk]

Hey all, I just got into Civ3 recently, and I'm currently fighting to keep up in a huge map game with way too many AI civs. After having AI civs finish the Pyramids, the GL, Sistine Chapel, Darwin, and JSBach all less than five turns before I finished mine, I finally got sick of it when the Americans finished Hoover Dam when I had two turns remaining.

I restored a save game from a couple turns past, planted a spy, and investigated the city producing the wonder. It showed Hoover Dam had ~40 turns remaining!? Weird, I thought, since it would complete in two turns!

Anyway, I successfully sabotaged their production immediately after. "That solves that", I thought. Nope! Two turns later, the same city I sabotaged finished Hoover Dam! I restored and did it again to make sure I didn't misread my sabotage result, and sure enough, it SAID I sabotaged the wonder (undetected), but it finished two turns later! (The city has 20-some shields if I remember correctly) I did it one more time, and was detected while successfully sabotaging this time, but still they finished the Dam.

Have the Americans somehow teleported in some Civ2 Caravans? Is this just bad karma from my save game sneakiness? More importantly, is there any way to stop them from making the #$@#&^% Dam?

Please help!

 

[Ohwell]

They may have had a leader.

 

[napoleon526]

Originally posted by Ohwell
They may have had a leader.

Right. It doesn't matter how many turns you have left, a leader finishes it in one. Although if you sabotage after they use the leader but before their turn ends...is this possible?

 

[Chunk]

Ah, I didn't think of that!

I suppose it could be possible to sabotage a leader's production if your turn came after that AI's turn in the order? So like if the AI has already done their turn, and you're next? It seems like I'm always the first to move in a turn, however, and either way, I guess I'm screwed in this case.

This must be another one of those AI "cheats"... they have done it to me with every wonder except the great wall, which I didn't really care if I got anyway. :/

Thanks for the replies, I guess that answers it! Damn Lincoln!

 

[Dralix]

Originally posted by Chunk
This must be another one of those AI "cheats"... they have done it to me with every wonder except the great wall, which I didn't really care if I got anyway. :/

You only have evidence for the Hoover Dam, and if the AI had and used a leader, that is bad luck for you, not a cheat. As for the other wonders, you can only speculate since you didn't investigate the cities.

So the lesson to be learned here is to investigate the AI cities that are building the wonder and take whatever action is neccessary to beat them. That could be assigning your population and workers to maximize production, going to war, sabotage, etc.

 

[Chunk]

The thing is, they did it to me six times during that game; finishing wonders 1-5 turns before me. Granted, that's possible, but to do this with Hoover they must have either investigated my city late in its development (as the city was growing rapidly at that point due to mass railroading, and had many more shields later in its development), or have just gotten lucky and did it at the exact turn they needed to. I can certainly buy that it was a coincidence, but what about the other five times? Especially since nobody in the world had Espionage (which I sold to everybody) during the development of the other wonders?

With a lot of AI civs this scenario isn't out of the realm of possibilities, as everyone attempts to build the same wonder, and all nations were at parity for science until this point. But with what happened with the Dam, it leads me to believe that the AI intrinsically knows what I'm producing.

It would be interesting to play Civ3 in "god mode" and watch the AI work sometime. The AI seems very good in Civ3, but it would be nice to know what "cheats" the AI is given to make it competitive. (Note that I am not against this, I know it's necessary for a good AI!)

 

[D. Boon's Ghost]

The big question, at least concerning the Hoover Dam, is whether or not America was at war at the time.
If they were, than a Great Leader was used to rush the Dam (as Dralix, Ohwell, and Napoloeon526 mentioned).

If not?
Well, let us just hope that America was at war.

(edit: Wait! Maybe they saved a leader...yeah, that's it. Heh.)

 

[Dralix]

Originally posted by Chunk
The thing is, they did it to me six times during that game; finishing wonders 1-5 turns before me. Granted, that's possible, but to do this with Hoover they must have either investigated my city late in its development (as the city was growing rapidly at that point due to mass railroading, and had many more shields later in its development), or have just gotten lucky and did it at the exact turn they needed to. I can certainly buy that it was a coincidence, but what about the other five times? Especially since nobody in the world had Espionage (which I sold to everybody) during the development of the other wonders?

All you need to investigate a city is an embassy, not a spy.

 

[Chunk]

Originally posted by D. Boon's Ghost
The big question, at least concerning the Hoover Dam, is whether or not America was at war at the time.
If they were, than a Great Leader was used to rush the Dam (as Dralix, Ohwell, and Napoloeon526 mentioned).

If not?
Well, let us just hope that America was at war.

(edit: Wait! Maybe they saved a leader...yeah, that's it. Heh.)

Everybody was at war at the time, except me. Struggling to keep up with the AIs earlier in the game, I paid the Germans and Persians to attack the Iriqois, who were far and away the largest civ at the time. Within three turns every AI had declared war on the Iriqois. After they eventually sued for peace, all hell broke loose. Now I'm the only nation not at war. Even Ghandi is entering military alliances. I'm such a war monger.

Anyway, I digress. It could very possibly be a leader, but could all six be leaders? And could all six just coincidentally happen right before I finished mine? I'll have to bow to your guys' experience here as to whether this is normal or not, because I have only been playing Civ3 for a few months. I'm much more familiar with AI behavior in Civ2 than Civ3.

 

[Chunk]

Originally posted by Dralix


All you need to investigate a city is an embassy, not a spy.

Ah, you're right, sorry. I wonder how they manage to afford investigating all my cities so frequently when they are sending 100 gold per turn to me, and are at war? That's a lot of cash!

BTW, side question... is it normal for AI civs to agree to give you 100 gold per turn for key advances like railroad? Cause I have been getting 400+ gold per turn for the last few advances I have sold, between all the AI's. I'm giving big stuff, like Steam Power and Electricy. Not that it would help them much, as I am reforesting their land for them.

 

[6-of-october]

you could plant a spy, steal plans and check if they had a leader.