Sabotage

[Sarisin]

A couple of questions/issues from my current game played as Malakhim (no Shadows!) on sabatoge:

1. I had a Beastmaster with a Hawk on board and failed to see a Morgoth Shadow. I summoned a Sand Lion and was able to see the Shadow. I thought Hawks could detect stealth units.

2. I just couldn't believe this. I had five units fortified on one mana node and 7 on the other - the AI tends to favor sabotaging mana nodes. Well, a Morgoth Shadow STILL sabotaged my Dimensional mana node - while I was building the Nexus. Does stationing units on improvements really raise your chances of catching a Shadow? I was unable to see this Shadow like the one mentioned in #1.

3. Morgoth sued for a peace treaty which I granted him. Two turns later, I caught one of his Shadows trying to sabotage again. Can Shadows sabotage during a peace treaty? I guess they can try. I didn't think of it at the time, but could I have declared war even though the peace treaty still had some turns to run.

4. This last one was the most amazing thing I think I have seen in this mod. For many turns I had been buddies with Ethne White. We had Friendly relations and a defensive pact. Don't you know he sends a Shadow into my territory to sabotage a mana node? I hated to declare war because of this because we had similar sized armies and a long common border. First, have you ever seen a really good ally stab you in the back like this, and what would you have done?

 

[Jarlaxle135]

Oh yeah, allies have no problems sending their little shadows into my lands to destroy nodes. Worse yet, even if you have floating eyes, sand lions, or shadow of your own, you can do nothing but watch them--short of declaring war. I would love for shadows to become hidden nationality, so that when detected/spotted, they could be killed. A problem with this though, is that shadows would then attack units. I'm not sure if there is any way to get around this, but this problem really makes me hate shadows. Perhaps the team could work around this.

 

[vorshlumpf]

Yeah, I really hate it when an exposed Shadow will sabotage something of mine in front of my face. Yet, when I kill the sucker, I'm the one declaring war on his owner.

 

[kenken244]

i would like to make it so that ai civs ( or at least good ones) would not sabatoge you

 

[vorshlumpf]

I used to nerf Shadows from time to time, like take away their marksman ability. Now with Hawks seeing them, I've got my in-game counter.

I'm not sure why I hate Shadows so much. Hmm, I guess the term is "whack-a-mole".

 

[Sarisin]

I don't think the AI has caught on to the 'Hawk' strategy of detecting stealth units.

One dirty trick tactic I like to use is to build the Council of Esus and then produce HN Shadows. I don't use them for sabotage though as they don't last long. I really have bad luck with that.

However, I send them into the territory of the AI civ(s) with more pts. than me and start to take out Workers, Mages, Conjurers, Adepts, etc. Eventually, they will get strong enough to start handling units that are not fortified in cities.

The really great dirty trick tactic is to take out AI GPs. For some reason, I find the AI is inclined to stockpile GPs and go for Golden Ages. Easy pickin's for your HN Shadows.

My last game as the Malakhim was not as much fun with dirty tricks as I could not build Shadows.

 

[vorshlumpf]

I don't think the AI has caught on to the 'Hawk' strategy of detecting stealth units.

I've never seen the AI build hawks, let alone use them correctly.

 

[erx]

treasure a captured elephant then upgrade it to war elephant (with hidden nationality). I use this war beast to kill shadows and punish my neighbors without declaring war.

 

[EugeneStyles]

It would be nice if when you attacked a spy unit in your territory, it popped up the box for declaring war, and if you choose "no", it should instead send the unit back to its owner's territory unharmed. Kinda like "I caught you!" "Oops, sorry, we'll go away now."

Although using HN units to kill Shadows is a good workaround in the meantime.

Incidentally, Council of Esus is so much fun. I make sure to build it every game. An HN Losha Valas has been the best use for it so far. Send her into enemy territory, she kills about 10 units that attack her, then she gets killed and repops in your capital for you to repeat. And while she's there, she can have a quick snack as well to replenish herself.

 

[Sarisin]

It would be nice if when you attacked a spy unit in your territory, it popped up the box for declaring war, and if you choose "no", it should instead send the unit back to its owner's territory unharmed. Kinda like "I caught you!" "Oops, sorry, we'll go away now."

Although using HN units to kill Shadows is a good workaround in the meantime.

Incidentally, Council of Esus is so much fun. I make sure to build it every game. An HN Losha Valas has been the best use for it so far. Send her into enemy territory, she kills about 10 units that attack her, then she gets killed and repops in your capital for you to repeat. And while she's there, she can have a quick snack as well to replenish herself.

Good points.

I tried building a hero, I think it was Corlindale, as a HN unit in my city that had the Council and that didn't work out at all. As soon as he was built a friendly unit (open border agreement) killed him. I forgot to watch out for units in my territory.

I like the idea of having HN units availble for Shadow-killing duty. Thanks.

Finally, I'm still wondering what you can do if a Shadow sabotages your improvement while there is a peace treaty in effect? Can you immediately declare war and kill the Shadow, or do you have to wait until the treaty ends?