Saltpeterless Yet Again

[Old&Slow]

In my third C3C Huge Map game in a row I have no Saltpeter resouces even though I own 1/2 the large Continent Map with 25 cities so far. In fact it looks like there is only one deposit of it on the whole Continent.

If this isn`t a Bug it`s sure remarkably bad luck IMO.

That aside, does the lack of Saltpeter effect you throughout the Game ?

In other words will I be unable to build Rifleman and Infantry and Mech. Inf. when I research them ?

thanks

 

[Bleser]

Saltpeter is only required for Musketmen, Cavalry, Coastal Fortresses (useless), and (maybe?) Frigates.

Not that big of a deal, to me, at least.

Now if you don't have rubber, THAT is a big problem. Same goes for iron & coal (railroads...).

 

[bru]

The game I am playing now – Huge with large Continents. I own over half of one Continent and have just found out that there is only one Saltpetre and of coarse I do not have it and there is no Iron. It is frustrating to spend all that time building up my Civ with no or few resources!

 

[jpowers]

Shouldn't a lack of saltpeter give a population bonus?

 

[Renfield]

I have noticed a lot of resource problems in C3C.

In my current game there is no Aluminum. None, nowhere, nada, zilch. The entire world has been explored and mapped - and there is none. So no MA, no jet fighters, No stealth units, no AGEIS, no missles.

I can work around the no Aluminum as it effects the AI equally but I think it sucks. I <3 MA and missles of all sorts

I have done a couple of games with only one source of iron on the whole damn map.

Bug maybe?

 

[Bleser]

Originally posted by Renfield
I have noticed a lot of resource problems in C3C.

In my current game there is no Aluminum. None, nowhere, nada, zilch. The entire world has been explored and mapped - and there is none. So no MA, no jet fighters, No stealth units, no AGEIS, no missles.

I can work around the no Aluminum as it effects the AI equally but I think it sucks. I <3 MA and missles of all sorts

I have done a couple of games with only one source of iron on the whole damn map.

Bug maybe?

What size of maps have you been playing? What climate/terrain style?

Are you sure you have researched rocketry yet? I belive that is the tech that lets aluminum show up. I've played five or six C3C games on all different map sizes and have only found a shortage of a couple resources here and there, but nothing unusal or different from older Civ3 games.

 

[Old&Slow]

Originally posted by jpowers
Shouldn't a lack of saltpeter give a population bonus?

Actually it should remove a copulation Bonus

 

[Eyeoftiger]

Originally posted by Renfield
In my current game there is no Aluminum. None, nowhere, nada, zilch. The entire world has been explored and mapped - and there is none.

The AI may have built directly on top of Aluminum deposits.

The worst I ever had it was on a large map, two main continents. I had entire control over mine (I had taken out 5 nations already), and there were 5 nations on the other continent. My resources?

1 Rubber, 1 Iron, 4 (!) Horses.

On the other continent, there were 4 Aluminum, 4 Saltpeter, 4 Rubber, 5 Coal, 5 Iron, 3 Uranium, 5 Oil, and 3 Horses.

Thankfully I had that one rubber (and it doesn't disappear) and was able to build forces of artillery, infantry, and guerilas (this was before conquests and the TOW).

 

[Artifex]

What sucks is when I go for a beeline to cavalry strategy and then there is no saltpeter on my continent. That blows.

 

[Renfield]

What size of maps have you been playing? What climate/terrain style?

I play on random huge maps with random terrain and climate. I researched rocketry and no Aluminum. It might be that the AI built on top of it. We'll know for sure when I conquer them

I have noticed as a rule more lux's and less resources in C3C games. Just what I feel, no data to back it. And I have only played a couple C3C epic games. Might have just been a few bad rolls when the maps were generated. I only post it here to see if anyone else sees a trend.

 

[Wormwood]

I notice that luxes are really clustered. Usually, only one or two civs have access to a large amont of it.

 

[Bucephalus]

Originally posted by Renfield


no Aluminum. It might be that the AI built on top of it. We'll know for sure when I conquer them

You don't need to wait. Just right-click on the City square then left-click on 'terrain'.

 

[Enkidu Warrior]

I'm quite certain that it is impossible for there to be no alliminium on a given map. IIRC there is always at least one of each resource for each civ that started the game (just not necessarily in your borders!). Luxuries only appear on occupied landmasses, so they will appear more clustered than strategic resources which can appear on any landmass (including a one-tile island beyond your reach!). That and the fact that specific luxuries are always clustered together to encourage trade. Note also that the abundancy of strategic resources on a given landmass is dependant on the number of civs that start on it. So if you are a bit overcrowded at least you'll have plenty to fight over.

At first I was horrified with the new sparseness of resources, but I've learned to deal with it, even though I'm a bit of a pacifist most of the time. You can deal without horses or saltpeter with no problem.

 

[guyfamous]

I agree the amount of resources has dropped from Civ3. I used to be able to find resources available through trade if I didn't have it already available. I believe the 1:1 ratio of strategic resources to civilizations didn't survive to C3C. I would be surprised if there was no aluminum on the map, but wouldn't be surprised if there were only 1 or 2 occurences.

 

[Ivan the Kulak]

Enkidu: try your peaceful strategy when you have no iron and coal for RR, and no way to get it through trade either. I have already changed my resources so that even though there is a good chance I will not have access to any one resource directly, I will be able to trade for it by being nice to other civs. This means catching them up in techs, if necessary, and skillfully manipulating them into wars, so they can only trade with me. Those who feel that Atari can do no wrong and squeal with delight while watching their MA get killed by spearmen, or while watching automated workers ruin their empires after clicking on the pretty pretty buttons should of course continue to play with the default resource rules.

 

[Enkidu Warrior]

Originally posted by Ivan the Kulak
Enkidu: try your peaceful strategy when you have no iron and coal for RR, and no way to get it through trade either. I have already changed my resources so that even though there is a good chance I will not have access to any one resource directly, I will be able to trade for it by being nice to other civs. This means catching them up in techs, if necessary, and skillfully manipulating them into wars, so they can only trade with me. Those who feel that Atari can do no wrong and squeal with delight while watching their MA get killed by spearmen, or while watching automated workers ruin their empires after clicking on the pretty pretty buttons should of course continue to play with the default resource rules.

Each to their own Ivan. I've learned to like the way it is now, though it struck me to begin with. Even playing peacefully you can get around any resource problems most of the time (the greatest being as you mentioned iron and coal for railroads).

It certainly forces you to adapt your strategies a bit, so if you don't like that then by all means make changes.

I'm not about to say Atari can do no wrong but all the problems you listed are highly subjective. And you have no need to be bitter in most cases since you can change the game so much.

 

[valamas]

I had a great standard map with 5 other CIVS. There was only 2 iron sources and one saltpeter. I didn't realise until it was nearly too late.

I had great fun creating a special forces type sea expedition, landing my armies next to the city, taking it and defending it against the hordes.

 

[Nihilist]

You can always use the Editor to increase the incidence of natural resources...

 

[nihil8r]

i don't remember what the commands are but there is a "make cities disappaer" shortcut that makes the cities and roads and forests etc go away so you can see if enemies have built towns on resources. then you hit the shortcut again and everything comes back.

they key to controlling saltpeter is this: remember that it spawns in deserts, hills, and mountains. so you must plan on controlling desert areas and mountains and hills by gunpowder. even then you might be unlucky. therefor you must be prepared to invade by gunpowder. he who controls the spice controls the universe.

i played an enormous game where i controlled a huge swath of territory that had no gunpowder and i was fighting across a land bridge against the celts who controlled FOUR saltpeters. however, england had an extra saltpeter. i simply traded tech for saltpeter to england so i could buy musketmen to defend while i attacked celts and take 1 of their saltpeter towns.

 

[Goober]

I also find the lack of resources annoying, but kinda fun at the same time. It just reinforces my strategy to BUILD CITIES!!!. The more you build, the more land you control, the harder you are to kill, the more resources you get, most importantly. Then again, I have had all manner of games (4 MP's in a row, not a SINGLE iron I had in each, and I was always the largest empire.) in which I have been missing a critical resource. The only game where I actually had all critical resources was when I killed all other Civs, and had 100% of the worlds surface. And it is possible to have a game with NONE of one type of critical resource. I remember a game with NO saltpeter (or Uranium,, if memory serves). Of course, the map was tiny, and had not many mountains or desert.