Sarevok
Civ3 Scenario Creator
I have the book, and I have checked them. Understand that some locations are an acceptance of locations rather than the absolute location. Historical accuracy is major, but playability is also needed.citizen001 said:
SCENARIO PREVIEW: The Three Kingdoms: Extended Edition
- Thread starter Sarevok
- Start date
I have a concern with the Li Jue-LuBu-Zhang Xiu locked alliance. Here's a quote from Kongming's Archives :
If a third member of Li Jue's alliance is needed, maybe you should consider Liu Biao. I'm currently playing a Monarch difficulty game as Liu Bei. Cao Cao attacked Liu Biao, and has enlisted the aid of every remaining warlord(except me) and Liu Biao hasn't budged in about 20 turns of war. He hasn't lost a single city...
I can't imagine LuBu bieng locked into an alliance with anyone(he changed allegiance like most men change clothes), let alone one of Dong Zhou's loyal generals.
If a third member of Li Jue's alliance is needed, maybe you should consider Liu Biao. I'm currently playing a Monarch difficulty game as Liu Bei. Cao Cao attacked Liu Biao, and has enlisted the aid of every remaining warlord(except me) and Liu Biao hasn't budged in about 20 turns of war. He hasn't lost a single city...
Sarevok
Civ3 Scenario Creator
they were only locked as enemies of Cao Cao rather than freinds with eachother. Either way, Li Jue will be the only person in that alliance next time.kane77077 said:
Good.Sarevok said:
The problem with that was that if I attacked Li Jue, LuBu would be forced to attack me under the terms of the MPP(locked alliance).Sarevok said:
Also - Why does Liu Bei start the game with Xinye? Shouldn't that city be someone else's(Liu Biao's, possibly)?
Sarevok
Civ3 Scenario Creator
it was his base of hiding. It is so that Liu Bei can survive without Xuzhou.kane77077 said:Good.
Also - Why does Liu Bei start the game with Xinye? Shouldn't that city be someone else's(Liu Biao's, possibly)?
citizen001
Banned
maybe we should start suggestions/comments/improvements for TTK as well?
Sarevok
Civ3 Scenario Creator
do that in the regular thread.citizen001 said:
Hi,
I'm playing Lu bu in monarch level. I started with convincing everybody to declare war to Wei, my enemy
, in the first turn I conquered Puyang with heavy loses.
After two turns more I conquered Chengyiang, and in a few more Quingzhov. Wei now only have the capital almost everybody is against Wei, jajajajaja. Now i'm thinking about my next conquest because I want my own Iron.
The heroes/generals are great and I really like them very much.
I only have a big complain and is the pollution, after 8 turns I had 3 squares in my capital with pollution. I don't really think pollution was a problem in the ancient Xina
. Please remove all the pollution 
.
Another thing that I noticed is that you don't need medium units to research advance units. I don't find any rational explanation to it
.
That's all for the moment.
I'm playing Lu bu in monarch level. I started with convincing everybody to declare war to Wei, my enemy
, in the first turn I conquered Puyang with heavy loses.After two turns more I conquered Chengyiang, and in a few more Quingzhov. Wei now only have the capital almost everybody is against Wei, jajajajaja. Now i'm thinking about my next conquest because I want my own Iron.
The heroes/generals are great and I really like them very much.
I only have a big complain and is the pollution, after 8 turns I had 3 squares in my capital with pollution. I don't really think pollution was a problem in the ancient Xina
. Please remove all the pollution .Another thing that I noticed is that you don't need medium units to research advance units. I don't find any rational explanation to it
.That's all for the moment.
Sarevok
Civ3 Scenario Creator
theyre hidden?kane77077 said:
Sarevok
Civ3 Scenario Creator
I cant remove all pollution, that is inevitable.Metacomet said:Hi,
I'm playing Lu bu in monarch level. I started with convincing everybody to declare war to Wei, my enemy
After two turns more I conquered Chengyiang, and in a few more Quingzhov. Wei now only have the capital almost everybody is against Wei, jajajajaja. Now i'm thinking about my next conquest because I want my own Iron.
The heroes/generals are great and I really like them very much.
I only have a big complain and is the pollution, after 8 turns I had 3 squares in my capital with pollution. I don't really think pollution was a problem in the ancient Xina
Another thing that I noticed is that you don't need medium units to research advance units. I don't find any rational explanation to it
That's all for the moment.
what do you mean advanced units dont need medium units?
Sarevok said:
Sarevok,
Thats true but at least Clear Damage can be do it for the worker in only one turn, it will help a lot to reduce this problem. Now it takes 24 turns.
Sarevok said:
Sarevok,
In the tech tree in the three kingdoms with feudalism and improved forging you can research Medium Units. On the other way with Buddhism, improved farming and Steel smithing you can research Elite units.
I really think that you need first research Medium Units and later on Elite Units. It makes sense to me.
Sarevok
Civ3 Scenario Creator
There are some advantages I cannot give. As for the elite units problem, ill make a link linking medium units to elite units.Metacomet said:
Try the "Grouchy Spider, Hidden Drag Queen" moves!ripptide said:I'm workin boss, I'm workin
kane77077 said:
I just completed a Monarch difficulty game (I played as Liu Bei) with the Victory Points settings as you suggested and it seemed to work out a bit...Many cities changed hands and only two were razed : Yuan Shao razed Bohai fairly early in the game and Sun Ce razed Yangzhou later on. Fancheng was taken by Cao Cao, then Liu Biao took it back then lost it to Cao Cao again, who in turn lost it to Sun Ce. I eventually took it from Sun Ce in the last few turns of the game, but my point is this : a minor city like Fancheng (no Wonder was located there, and it was kinda' small) changed hands six times, and it wasn't razed. The Victory Points remedy may work...Sarevok said:
By the way- 500,000 VPs to win the game should prevent anyone from winning before they unify China. I finished the game by Conquest around turn 110 (May 214AD) and only had 152,000 VPs.
I know talking about pollution is like beating a dead horse, but I'd like to say just another thing or two and then I'll drop it.
Like I said - I set every improvement/wonder as a pollution reducing improvement/wonder, and it seemed to work well enough. Small amounts of pollution still appeared (not often) and I assume it may have been partly due to popultation (many of my cities were size 30-50.) Pollution was not something I thought about AT ALL and I only bothered to clean it up when one of my workers had nothing else to do. The very small amount of pollution that did occur was insignificant and possibly even slightly realistic. This was a time before sanitation, so any large city would have sanitation/pollution issues.
I would suggest checking both pollution reduction boxes on every improvement/wonder (so they're cumulative). Any remaining pollution in the scenario will be marginal and can be rationalized as overcrowding/poor sanitation issues, or flood or typhoon damage. You could even rationalize the affected tiles as having a locust infestation - which brings up another point : Have you considered adding a Plauge of locusts to the scenariono properties/disasters tab?
Just my two cents - (I'll try not to bring up pollution in this thread again!)
Sarevok said:
kane77077 said:
Sarevok said:
Like I said - I set every improvement/wonder as a pollution reducing improvement/wonder, and it seemed to work well enough. Small amounts of pollution still appeared (not often) and I assume it may have been partly due to popultation (many of my cities were size 30-50.) Pollution was not something I thought about AT ALL and I only bothered to clean it up when one of my workers had nothing else to do. The very small amount of pollution that did occur was insignificant and possibly even slightly realistic. This was a time before sanitation, so any large city would have sanitation/pollution issues.
I would suggest checking both pollution reduction boxes on every improvement/wonder (so they're cumulative). Any remaining pollution in the scenario will be marginal and can be rationalized as overcrowding/poor sanitation issues, or flood or typhoon damage. You could even rationalize the affected tiles as having a locust infestation - which brings up another point : Have you considered adding a Plauge of locusts to the scenariono properties/disasters tab?
Just my two cents - (I'll try not to bring up pollution in this thread again!)
Okay - I finally completed a game as Liu Bei...
I set it to Monarch difficulty, and enabled the Victory Points conditions you specified. (I also made another change to every improvement/wonder - see my previous post).
From turn one I attacked Zhang Xiu(which brought me into confilct with his locked allies : LuBu and Li Jue) because I knew he wouldn't last long against Cao Cao. I took Wangcheng and Runan, Cao Cao took Nanyang.
From there, I went after Li Jue. I took Changan and Wuzhangguan while Cao Cao took Hongnong.
LuBu was killed when I took Xuzhou around the same time Li Jue was eliminated (sometime between turn 10-20.)
Not ready to take on the forces of Wei, I invaded Hanzhang and eliminated Zhang Lu next,then Yuan Shu. After Cao Cao captured Guanling from Yuan Shu (his last city) a turn before I could and thus destroying the Cheng, Cao Cao attacked Liu Biao. (Cao Cao seemed to have a lot of trouble with Liu Biao. Most of the fighting took place near Fancheng -next to my city of Xinye - so I had a front row seat. Cao Cao built alliances with everyone but Liu Biao held fast, even taking a few of Ma Teng's cities - Jieting and Nan - before losing them to Cao Cao. After many turns of fighting, Wei finally took Fancheng, but had lost every hero/warrior unit, Cao Cao included, except Cao Ren. Wei had also lost his strategist Xun Yu. )
When Fancheng finanlly fell to Wei, I saw an opportunity so I encouraged Wei to declare war on me and then allied with everyone left in the game. We were at an impasse for 4 or 5 turns, then I captured Hangnong. By then Fancheng had changed hands a few times before one of Sun Ce's armies arrived and took it from Wei. Cao Ren was killed by one of my siege towers in the mountains around Runan, so I quickly took Louyang and Xuchang. Yuan Shao's forces arrived as I was bombarding Guandu and took it with very little trouble(I would later regret not taking Guandu before he could). I beat Yuan Shao to the reainder of Wei's cities, then encouraged Yuan Shao to declare war on me.
After building alliances against Yuan Shao with the remaining warlords I began trying to take Guandu. Yuan Shao must've had 30-50% of his forces there, so it took a while, but then conquest of his other cities went fairly easily - three masses of troops: one on the coast towards Pingyuan, one up the middle from Guandu towards Yanzhou then Ye, and a third in the west towards Yongzhou then Xizhou. Sun Ce's army got to Yongzhou first, and razed the city (one of only two cities razed - the other was Bohai, earlier in the game during Yuan Shao's invasion of Gonsun Zan's lands.)
From there, I made short work of Liu Yong, Yan Baihu, and Liu Zhang before moving against Liu Biao, who was still at war with Ma Teng, from Ma's earlier alliance with Cao Cao.
Liu Biao would've been easier for me if I hadn't gifted the Medium Units tech to him so he could hold out against Cao Cao. By that time in the game, I had finished researching the Elite Units tech and had built and number Shan Qi units to add to the mass of Medium Cavalry units I had used in previous battles, so Liu Biao fell quickly.
That left Ma Teng and Sun Ce's family, who both fell easily. I wasn't suprised with the ease with which I defeated the Ma clan, but the quick demise of Sun Ce's family did suprise me.
The Shu-Han dynasty began in May of 214AD. It had taken Liu Bie roughly 110 turns and I had just over 150,000 Victory Points.
General obvservations :
1.)Zhang Fei, at his current stats, wasn't very useful : he was just too slow (Moves :1 )and he was a poor defender. (I lost him against a Wei army after I unwisely seperated him from another warrior/hero unit. We were able to hold Hongnong, but at a very high price
.)
2.)Guan Yu was invaluable (of course) but his "treat all terrain as roads" may have been an unfair advantage. (Red Hare kicks butt!) He promoted past Elite rank to create another warrior unit very early in the game.
3.)Zhao Yun was great. (He didn't ever promote past elite to create another hero unit, however.)
4.)Protecting the Liu Bei unit was important but I had to balance that with the need to capture Strategists, so Liu Bie saw quite a bit of action. His attack stat of 9 seemed a bit weak compared to others.
5.)The Pirate ships caught me totally off guard. Good job!
6.)I think the Sun clan should've built more ships. (I don't recall seeing a single one.) Also, even as the last remaining enemy, the hadn't build any Medium Units - a tech deficiency, perhaps?
7.)I did build a Rattan colony, but never used the resource - I could'nt fit Rattan units into my battle plan. I assume they're more for the warlords who don't have horses/wood/iron/steel?
8.)Yuan Shao's strength seemed dead on - He allegedly raised a million man army to attack Cao Cao - but the lowl evel (Light Swordsmen and Light Pikemen) made them bearable.
9.)I noticed in the editor that a few of the Hero units (Guan Yu, Zhang Fei, Zhao Yun, Xu Chu, etc.)have the "Stealth Attack" box checked under Special Actions but didn't have many options for Stealth Attack Targets. In game, I never even realized that was set-up because I never had contact between those particular Heros and their targets. Allowing more targets might make the scenario more enjoyable for players less familiar with the story.(Just a thought...)
Anyway, Great job ! You are the man!
I think I'll play as LuBu now...
I set it to Monarch difficulty, and enabled the Victory Points conditions you specified. (I also made another change to every improvement/wonder - see my previous post).
From turn one I attacked Zhang Xiu(which brought me into confilct with his locked allies : LuBu and Li Jue) because I knew he wouldn't last long against Cao Cao. I took Wangcheng and Runan, Cao Cao took Nanyang.
From there, I went after Li Jue. I took Changan and Wuzhangguan while Cao Cao took Hongnong.
LuBu was killed when I took Xuzhou around the same time Li Jue was eliminated (sometime between turn 10-20.)
Not ready to take on the forces of Wei, I invaded Hanzhang and eliminated Zhang Lu next,then Yuan Shu. After Cao Cao captured Guanling from Yuan Shu (his last city) a turn before I could and thus destroying the Cheng, Cao Cao attacked Liu Biao. (Cao Cao seemed to have a lot of trouble with Liu Biao. Most of the fighting took place near Fancheng -next to my city of Xinye - so I had a front row seat. Cao Cao built alliances with everyone but Liu Biao held fast, even taking a few of Ma Teng's cities - Jieting and Nan - before losing them to Cao Cao. After many turns of fighting, Wei finally took Fancheng, but had lost every hero/warrior unit, Cao Cao included, except Cao Ren. Wei had also lost his strategist Xun Yu. )
When Fancheng finanlly fell to Wei, I saw an opportunity so I encouraged Wei to declare war on me and then allied with everyone left in the game. We were at an impasse for 4 or 5 turns, then I captured Hangnong. By then Fancheng had changed hands a few times before one of Sun Ce's armies arrived and took it from Wei. Cao Ren was killed by one of my siege towers in the mountains around Runan, so I quickly took Louyang and Xuchang. Yuan Shao's forces arrived as I was bombarding Guandu and took it with very little trouble(I would later regret not taking Guandu before he could). I beat Yuan Shao to the reainder of Wei's cities, then encouraged Yuan Shao to declare war on me.
After building alliances against Yuan Shao with the remaining warlords I began trying to take Guandu. Yuan Shao must've had 30-50% of his forces there, so it took a while, but then conquest of his other cities went fairly easily - three masses of troops: one on the coast towards Pingyuan, one up the middle from Guandu towards Yanzhou then Ye, and a third in the west towards Yongzhou then Xizhou. Sun Ce's army got to Yongzhou first, and razed the city (one of only two cities razed - the other was Bohai, earlier in the game during Yuan Shao's invasion of Gonsun Zan's lands.)
From there, I made short work of Liu Yong, Yan Baihu, and Liu Zhang before moving against Liu Biao, who was still at war with Ma Teng, from Ma's earlier alliance with Cao Cao.
Liu Biao would've been easier for me if I hadn't gifted the Medium Units tech to him so he could hold out against Cao Cao. By that time in the game, I had finished researching the Elite Units tech and had built and number Shan Qi units to add to the mass of Medium Cavalry units I had used in previous battles, so Liu Biao fell quickly.
That left Ma Teng and Sun Ce's family, who both fell easily. I wasn't suprised with the ease with which I defeated the Ma clan, but the quick demise of Sun Ce's family did suprise me.
The Shu-Han dynasty began in May of 214AD. It had taken Liu Bie roughly 110 turns and I had just over 150,000 Victory Points.
General obvservations :
1.)Zhang Fei, at his current stats, wasn't very useful : he was just too slow (Moves :1 )and he was a poor defender. (I lost him against a Wei army after I unwisely seperated him from another warrior/hero unit. We were able to hold Hongnong, but at a very high price
.)2.)Guan Yu was invaluable (of course) but his "treat all terrain as roads" may have been an unfair advantage. (Red Hare kicks butt!) He promoted past Elite rank to create another warrior unit very early in the game.
3.)Zhao Yun was great. (He didn't ever promote past elite to create another hero unit, however.)
4.)Protecting the Liu Bei unit was important but I had to balance that with the need to capture Strategists, so Liu Bie saw quite a bit of action. His attack stat of 9 seemed a bit weak compared to others.
5.)The Pirate ships caught me totally off guard. Good job!
6.)I think the Sun clan should've built more ships. (I don't recall seeing a single one.) Also, even as the last remaining enemy, the hadn't build any Medium Units - a tech deficiency, perhaps?
7.)I did build a Rattan colony, but never used the resource - I could'nt fit Rattan units into my battle plan. I assume they're more for the warlords who don't have horses/wood/iron/steel?
8.)Yuan Shao's strength seemed dead on - He allegedly raised a million man army to attack Cao Cao - but the lowl evel (Light Swordsmen and Light Pikemen) made them bearable.
9.)I noticed in the editor that a few of the Hero units (Guan Yu, Zhang Fei, Zhao Yun, Xu Chu, etc.)have the "Stealth Attack" box checked under Special Actions but didn't have many options for Stealth Attack Targets. In game, I never even realized that was set-up because I never had contact between those particular Heros and their targets. Allowing more targets might make the scenario more enjoyable for players less familiar with the story.(Just a thought...)
Anyway, Great job ! You are the man!
I think I'll play as LuBu now...
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