Science Advisor would like a wonder begun soon

[Leowind]

There are wonders on the horizon that we will want, and we will stand a better chance of getting them, and get their benefits sooner, if we are already building something before we get the tech. I know Cops Obs will be a priority, as will Mike's Chapel. Marco Polo's is popular with many players, and someone may even want to build the Great Library. Sun Tzu's is well within our reach should we go that direction as well. Part of this will depend on where we decide our research should focus, but I don't think it's too soon to start thinking about what city to build our next wonder in and when to start. If we are going to go after Cops Obs, of course, we will have to begin a wonder in Elysium. Potential wonder building should be kept in mind as we decide on build queues for our cities. Not exactly sure who's domain this falls under (domestic advisor?), but want to get us talking about it anyway.

 

[MonkE]

I agree that starting a wonder in Elysium (for Cops) is a Good Thing, but a good plan will guarantee sufficient happiness first.

Mike's (sharing top priority with Cops) would go nicely in RC.

I'd love to have Sun Tzu's and/or Marco Polo if circumstances allow. Marco Polo might be a bit more valuable because then we can keep an eye on our rivals' tech.

Since we will be leading in science , the only value of GL would be to deny it to others.

 

[Zwelgje]

I'd like to see Marco Polo in RC and Cop. Obs. in Elysium. Just start another wonder and switch when the wonder of choice becomes available.
In this case we should build F2 and let it be devoted to serving Elysium with units and caravans while Little Nemo should be pumping units, settler and caravans out for RC.
Filler cities are supposed to be the big cities' slaves aren't they?

 

[GaryNemo]

Thank you for bringing this up, Sir Leowind. Happiness, Cities, Roads, and Caravans. Little Nemo, F2 and F3 all have Forest, where we can choke growth and build Caravans again and again. Temple in Elysium, then TFalls & Civvium. Probably a Library in Regia Civitas and Elysium.

I'm not sure starting the wonders early makes much difference, when we could have 10 cities building Caravans. Six right near RC & Elysium, plus cities up the River from Castle Jayne. Six= Little Nemo, F2 F3 TFalls Civvium and Castle Jayne. I agree with Cop's Obs and Mike's, and Marco's I'd guess. Anyone know how to use that thing?

I would also like to stop Rush Buying, to IPRB smoothly and efficiently, and begin to consider Filler F4 on the Forest 3 NW of RC.

 

[duke o' york]

I agree that we need to stop IPRBing everything and use some more caution, only buying when it's absolutely necessary. Elysium will need a library soon to make the most of the extra science.
I'm not sure that we should be too worried about Marco's as we will have Navigation by the time we polish off the Indians and Vikings and won't really need to swap maps with other civs by then. We may not be able to make a beeline for the enemy civs but we will be able to spot huts on the way if we get lost.
Cop's and Mike's are absolute certainities and I won't be a happy bunny if we don't get both of them. I am confident that we can though, especially if we use caravans from the six cities listed by Gary. I'd prefer Sun Tzu's to Marco's as I reckon we can get by quite nicely without needing to gift techs. I agree that it's nice to see how far the AI are doing on the tech trail but we don't need to. We can always overtake them on the wonder trail with some caravans if we need to.

 

[GaryNemo]

IPRB: Incremental Partial Rush Buy. Example, spend $8 on Warrior=10, then switch back to Phalanx. IPRB is used to complete priority units a few turns sooner.

Rush Buy: Waste final normal shield production by buying a complete unit. An act of desperation.

I prefer IPRB, there is no waste, when we can plan ... and the plan is being developed smoothly. Without an AI invasion, for instance. That Colossus Crisis was an excellent example of the odd situation where Rush Buy is warranted. Normally, let's avoid it.

Anyway, I accept the duke's and MonkE's wisdom. I don't understand Marco's well, but Elysium Cop's and RC Mike's seem necessary. Both, ASAP.

 

[Jayne]

A useful point with Marco's is, for example, you are building Mike's but you find out the Indians are too, you can just Check Intelligence to find out which town is building it and go beat them up!

 

[MonkE]

As Marco's is an embassy with each civ, it's faster than finding everyone with diplomats (doesn't cost much more either if there are 7 civs). We can see what tech they are researching (and have researched) for us and how many cities they'll donate to our expansion program.

 

[Rout]

Im with the simian on the benefits of marco's, but we should postpone trade till we get some boats so we can go sailing maaaan..

 

[StevieP]

Originally posted by MonkE
As Marco's is an embassy with each civ... ...how many cities they'll donate to our expansion program.

I like your thinking

 

[Leowind]

Marcos can be handy to know what techs a civ has and therefore what wonder they might switch to when we beat them to a wonder. This occasionally can be very important, if we beat a civ to an important wonder only to have them switch to a vital wonder and finish it next turn. I would not consider it vital, however. Cops and Mike's are. Yeah, we can wait and build them with caravans, but if we get a head start on them, then some of those caravans can be used to establish trade routes that much earlier.

 

[funxus]

I agree on starting a wonder asap for the same reasaons as leowinds. The cost for 6 diplos is lower than the cost for the wonder and it's permanent, which Marco's isn't. The difference is that we have to find them first though

 

[MonkE]

Well, as nice as Marco's may be, I don't want to lose sight of the vital wonders: Cops and Mike's. It would be nearly criminal to miss either one of these.

On trade: The reason it is my highest priority is not for trading with the AI, nor even for supporting wonder builds with caravans.
It is for establishing domestic trade routes with the Colossus city. This science boost (+Cops and Newtons's) will put us so far ahead that the AI doesn't have a prayer.

Assuming the game proceeds that far, we will eventually send howitzers against riflemen, battleships against caravels, etc. We will start a spaceship when they are researching railroad. Tax revenue can be cranked up periodically so we can casually bribe a nice size 8 city for 2500g or so. This all starts by establishing these trade routes as early as possible.

Since Civ2 is such a versatile game, I recognize that others may have different preferences in the style of play. But no matter how you play, you need tech, production, and cash. Why not do it in a big way?

I've referred to this before (and may again), but if you haven't already done so, I recommend checking out this game from the Timelines .

 

[Leowind]

MonkE, I agree completely with your stance concerning trade (although I do like those foreign trade routes and their big cash/science payouts when established). Cops and Mikes are necessities. Marcos can be helpful, but its actually only recently that I've even bothered with it. I would almost prefer Sun Tzu's over Marcos, actually.