Sea-Air superiority

[Shrykull]

Hello. I play the Warlord level, and right now I have my first successful game ever after many bad tries. I'm playing Marla Singer's world map.

I'm in modern times now, and I control practically the whole of Asia. I'm the world number one, and my closest rival is Lincoln at America. The problem is, I'm advanced technologically, but we're neck to neck in terms of land power. The Atlantic and Pacific separate us, and my only advantage against the US are my superior navy and my tactical nukes.

I've just parked a bunch of battleships, tactical nukes and 8 bombers and 4 jet fighters within range of the US east coast. The problem is, my carriers and battleships are within range of US bombers and F-15s as well. My navy could be wiped out by a horde of bombers, nullifying my advantage and possibly allowing the US to mobilise and land modern armour and mech Infantry on my shores.

Can someone tell me how air power works? I've never experienced air battles before, and if war breaks out this will be a first time for me. Are 4 jet fighters sufficient to fend off 21 bombers? How many jet fighters will I need to fend off 21 bombers? Also, how significant is the F-15 factor?

I've 30+ tactical nukes but only 11 nuclear submarines. All of them are loaded but only half of them are withing striking range of the US coast and heartland. Until I can stockpile ICBMs my navy is the only weapon I have that can launch sustained strikes against the US. Understandably I want to beef them up a bit.

Are Aegis Cruisers any good? How many do I need? I've also noticed that Carriers have the most firepower, but battleships are needed to protect them, and jet fighters are needed to protect battleships from bombers. How does stealth technology factor in this equation?

 

[Clown2TheLeft]

AEGIS enables you to see enemy subs. But if you've got tac-nuke loaded subs in the area, you'll be able to see 'em anyway. I wouldn't bother, if you've got that massive of a sub fleet.

The F-15's are going to chew up your bombers rather quickly. I wouldn't bother in an air war with the US unless you've got Stealth. Your best bet in crippling them is landing troops--which I noticed you neglected to mention having in range. You sound like you're halfway there.

Unless you want to unleash the nukes, though you'd really--really--better be prepared for that.

Also, keep in mind that--if they haven't had it already--when an American F-15 kills your bomber--and it will--that triggers their golden age...

Good luck.

Later!

--The Clown to the Left

 

[Shabbaman]

That's a whole bunch of questions.

First, did you install the proper patch? Air superiority doesn't work below 1.21 (or something like that)

Now, what is your path to victory? Are you planning a domination victory of some kind? Why do you want to attack the US? ([ot]*starts to wonder how many CIA agents are freaking out on CFC every day...*[/ot])

Air battles go something like this: a bomber attacks you, and then the RNG calculates whether or not it's intercepted by the fighter on an air superiority mission. If it's shoots down some bombers, this will keep the AI from attacking you.
That's because the AI is dumb.
So.
If it builds air defense in the first place...than it just might have placed in the wrong place.

And look at what you're actually saying here: you want to build a lot of units that can't capture your opponents cities, which will cost you lotsa gpt. Just build MA or something.
Oh yeah, most people tend to finish before building aegis or stealth. I don't really have an answer here.

 

[Shrykull]

I'm in deep ****! Subs can see each other? My goodness. I thought they were only detected when another ship passes over them, so I infiltrated them deep in enemy territory.

The US has a practically non-existent navy and air superiority, maybe one or two jet fighters and battleships - certainly no match for my current forces. Unfortunately they'll probably be able to pump a whole bunch out every few turns as they have the technology and many large cities.

So my bombers will be chewed up? Maybe I can launch my tactical nukes, bomb stuff on the same turn, then hotfoot it our of there and concentrate on intercepting an invasion? The problem is, I've penetrated past Caribbean cities that can be used as airbases, so even if I run away I'll be under sustained bombardment for a while. Will my paltry 4 jet fighters be able to fend off 21+ bombers?

I don't have an invasion force. I think that any land force I send in will be practically doomed. Currently, we're evenly matched, with the difference that my force is spread throughout the Asian continent whereas his is concentrated in North America. The US has a handful of size 28 cities and many lesser ones, 15+ modern armour and many infantry, which he can upgrade to Mech Inf in a pinch. In addition he has those 21 bombers to chew up a landing.

I'm thinking of a nuclear strike, ICBMs at heartland, tactical nukes at coast, military alliances with US neighbours against the US, paratroops into weakened cities, invasion force for city destroying later. Will that work?

I've been using a Mutual Protection Pact with the US to avoid hostilities, but it's been getting more and more expensive to upkeep it, the US is annoyed with me - don't know why - and that country poses the greatest right now. One has to be prepared. Why couldn't they have accepted the MPP for another term?

 

[Clown2TheLeft]

Unleash those nukes, and you'll see that the alliances you forged will quickly turn against you.

Now would be an excellent time for a save, by the way. Heheh.


Later!

--TCttL

 

[Shrykull]

I have the proper patch.

My path to victory is either the space race or cultural victory. I can forget about the UN, lol.

I don't want to attack the US, but I MIGHT have to. This is caused by paranoia from being fvcked too many times up the arse by previous games. In any case I smell trouble. World opinion of my civ has sunk to new depths, and the US is being annoyed for no reason I can think of. I control the whole of Asia, but there are many African nations within striking range of my territories, so I don't exactly control the continent. The US has the power and the money to incite attacks on me by other civilisations, and it has the ability to send forth modern armour and mech inf to my heartland within a few turns. This is a threat nobody else possesses.

I can't hold captured US cities. With two capitals, one in Europe and one in China I already have my hands full. Lincoln is the biggest power in North and South America. In addition we're neck to neck in terms of culture, with me having a slight edge. My best bet in removing the US threat will be to weaken and destroy cities, leaving US neighbours to finish it.

Shabbaman, are you saying that if just ONE of my jet fighters shoots down a bomber, the AI will not send anymore bombers against my fleet? Wow!

Another question, do F-15s come into conflict with enemy Jet Fighters if both are on air superiority? I need to come up with a way to reduce the US F-15 count.

 

[Tassadar]

Usualy i have 2 carrier with jet fighter on air supperiority within 3 tile of my naval force, this protect very well against bombing.

The only way to get ride of the f-15 is sending jet fighter on bombing mission, they will get a low chance to kill the interceptor, so you may need several jet fighter bombing run to clear the sky for your bomber, keep constant supply.

 

[WildFire]

Originally posted by Clown2TheLeft
The F-15's are going to chew up your bombers rather quickly. I wouldn't bother in an air war with the US unless you've got Stealth. Your best bet in crippling them is landing troops--which I noticed you neglected to mention having in range. You sound like you're halfway there.

Also, keep in mind that--if they haven't had it already--when an American F-15 kills your bomber--and it will--that triggers their golden age...

--The Clown to the Left

Uh, i don't get it. If some of you don't know this here it is. An F-15 is a fighter plane. Thus the F in F-15. But C2TL, why would the F-15's chew up the bombers? For some reason, they were given better bombard!!!!! Even though they are FIGHTERS so they shouldn't have a better bombard. So really, F-15's and jet fighters have equal chances of winning because they have the same attack (which is pretty stupid)

 

[Fanny Brice]

I wouldn't worry too much about the US landing on your shores. You have naval superiority... they won't get through. Even if they do, you can chop up any landing force.

If you have never started a nuke war before, be careful. It changes things radically. Other nations may declare war on you instantly... even nuke you without warning. And if you have multiple parties at war with you, you'll never know exactly who nuked you (not that it matters in the game play... but you'll still want to hit whoever hit you!).

If the UN is not already built, get it! If the US has it, you would be wise to buddy up to your neighbors. Man, I hate that UN unless I have possession of it. Nothing can end a game quicker... and you really find out who your friends are.

Keep your defenses up and concentrate on your victory path... build, build, build those culture improvements. Switch to communism if you need to build up outlying areas for culture improvements. (You will lose any scientific edge you have if you go Commie however).

 

[redhulkz]

Q1 what are the good points of my civilization having the UN ?

all good point i can think of is just being made Secretary General n finsh up a diplomat Victory.

Q2 if u not elected secretary general, then will the point of u having the UN wasted ?

Q3 any good tips how to be elected as secretary general ?

 

[Shrykull]

I have the UN. I convened a vote once and shamefully lost, 11 votes in favor of Lincoln to 1 vote in favor of me.

The good thing is, if you build the UN you get to decide whether to call for the election. For me, since I lost everytime I did that, I simply selected No everytime they asked if I wanted to call elections for the UN Secretary-General.

I'm having second doubts about the kind of alliances I can get. Many civs are annoyed with me no matter what I do! I actually GAVE them stuff like resources and technology and there's no improvement in attitude.

 

[StarG]

1) If you get nuked, you can tell WHO nuked you by the COLOR of the missle as it lands. You just have to watch carefully.

2) Build Integrated Defense. It will intercept 75% of Nuke attacks .

3) If you choose to attack first, target MILITARY targets. Bomb and destroy the RESOURCES needed to BUILD F-15s, Bombers, Jets, Nukes, etc. If
you can take out his RESOURCES, the AI CAN NOT BUILD any forces to strike back!! You don't care if the AI has tremendous production if the only war units produced are Medievil!!!

4) NEVER give the AI MILITARY Technology or Military Resources unless you have very specific goals to accomplish. An example is to help an enemy of your enemy.

Have fun.

 

[Shrykull]

StarG, thanks for the tips. They were certainly news. I'm using patch 1.29f, and darn it but in a test war American bombers did not get intercepted by my jet fighters. Do the fighters intercept everytime, or is there a chance they won't?

I'm also assuming that some civilisations get their resources by trade. How do you disable that in such a case?

I've also given the Ai Mil tech out of a desperate attempt to boost my gold per turn and keep ahead technologically. It has worked so far, because the AI would have used all that gold for research anyway?

 

[Zcylen]

Well, it sounds like a D-Day strategy to me.
air force is USELESS if you dont have ground units to take/destroy the cities.
but think of this if you go to war against an enemy who matches your strenght well you'll need ALOT of units.
remember you will be fighting in a large, far and hostile territory.
how many turns will the reinforcements take to arrive if needed?
If you declare war, there's no turn back

 

[Tassadar]

Originally posted by Shrykull
StarG, thanks for the tips. They were certainly news. I'm using patch 1.29f, and darn it but in a test war American bombers did not get intercepted by my jet fighters. Do the fighters intercept everytime, or is there a chance they won't?

I'm also assuming that some civilisations get their resources by trade. How do you disable that in such a case?

I've also given the Ai Mil tech out of a desperate attempt to boost my gold per turn and keep ahead technologically. It has worked so far, because the AI would have used all that gold for research anyway?

Fighter on air supperiority have something like 50 % chance of sucess, 1 fighter will defend against 1 bomber. so you may need more.

You can activate trade embargo through diplomatic agreement, you will have to pay most of the time but it s a good way to create tension within a.i..

My suggestion for your game is make a d-day, a few transport full of thank with some defender, everything under air supperiority cover ( within 3 tile of carrier full of jet fighter. Raze every thing ( you may need to be communist).

 

[Datheus]

I think air superiority is a bit different than regular defense. A unit can DEFEND itself as many times as it needs to, but it can only attack once. I believe one fighter jet can preform ONE interception (failed or succeded) per turn. So if you want to have a chance at intercepting 21 bombers in one turn, you'd need 21 jets. I do believe bombers fight back during an interception, but it's a pretty weak fight. A bomber will almost always loose against a jet, unless the jet as 1 health point left.

Avoid using the nukes unless you absolutly have to. Period. Firstly... I was nuked... and honestly... I didn't see much of an affect. *reads his manual* It says here all units in the nuked square and ajacent squares (ie the area you nuke, and the surrounding 8 squares) Have a 50/50 chance of dying. Also, half the cities population will be wiped out. Hm, so, if you bomb a particularly large city (Which would only make sense, why would you need to nuke a city that you could just take with 2 Modern Armours) The affect will be small (unless it has many many units garrisoned in that city). You can expect for half of the units garrisoned in the city (or possibly surrounding it to die) So if there's only maybe 4 units, why bother? You could easy take that city by land without horribly affecting your world opinion.

There really is no way for you to take their coast without having ground units. So here's what I like to do. Build yourself a hoard of Mech Infantry. Then, build yourself a hoard of Modern Armour. Then build transports. You should need 4 or 5 transports Unload your Mech Infantry preferably onto a mountain square. America will most likely move many many units to attack the units you just landed (Assuming you're already at war) The added defense bonus from the moutain should help you win. After that's blown over, unload your Armour, and take the entire coast of cities, that will probably help you prevent them from creating transports to possibly seige YOUR nation. Use your massive naval force to either (A) Help capture cities on the coast by constant bombardment (B) prevent carries from getting across the Atlantic/Pacific. Chances are, they'll be to occupied trying to defend themselves to attack the motherland, but if they do try, you need to have SOMETHING to watch for AND sink their transporters, Destroyers should be enough. Just string them from north to south, across the entire ocean ever few square so nothing gets by. Once you have the costal cities, work your way into the mainland. Bring as many fighters over as you can and constantly use them for air superiorty to protect a most probably mass bombing of your newly captured roads and resources.

Bombardment isn't the best thing in the world to use for capturing cities, or even cutting off resorces, unless you plan to raze everything you capture. Anything you capture can help you defend, but if you destroy it when you're bombarding, it's not of much help afterwards.

Also... beware of culture flips. In a new captured city, most, if not all the citizens will resist. I was warring with Germany, but I stationed nearly ALL of my troops in the city I just captured, and would quell all the resistors in one turn. Now, I don't know that's because it was on Cheiftain ( ) or not, but the more units you have in a city, the less likely it is to flip back over after capturing. but you need to remember, the more units you have in a city, the more you're likely to loose the only problem with razing is that other civs will tend to move into the newly opened area while you're finishing off the rest of America Although new cities revert back the the initial 9 squares of territory... at least that's 9 squares another Civ won't take in your absence.

 

[Naval Freak]

F-15s have an attack of 10, while jet fighters' attack is 8. Let's say that the u.s. has 20 F-15s, you should use 25-30 jets agaist 'em.

Why is your fleet within striking distance from the u.s. coast? if your worried, move them out of sriking distance, and then nuke the coastal cities.

:rocket2:

 

[fixable]

Originally posted by Datheus
(text deleted)

You should also take at least one captured city and as soon as possible, rush-build an airport. Every city in your homeland that has an airport can airlift a unit over to this city. It's the fastest way to get tons of reinforcements over.

 

[cromagnon]

Uh, i don't get it. If some of you don't know this here it is. An F-15 is a fighter plane. Thus the F in F-15. But C2TL, why would the F-15's chew up the bombers? For some reason, they were given better bombard!!!!! Even though they are FIGHTERS so they shouldn't have a better bombard. So really, F-15's and jet fighters have equal chances of winning because they have the same attack (which is pretty stupid)

The F-15 in the game is the F-15E Strike Eagle, a modification of the F-15 that emphasizes air-to-ground missions. You're probably thinking of the F-15C, which is more of an air superiority fighter. The F-15E could still hold its own in a dogfight, though, hence the equal chance of winning.

 

[akinkhoo]

before you start, make sure you got tons of armor and mech.
make sure you have many airport to transport additional troops

you will need to make 2 land assualt...

the 1st will land on a defensive area (on a hill, mountain to draw enemy forces)
use mech inf or standard infantry here... don't need too many...
make sure the enemy only declare war on the turn after you land your troop
let this smaller assualt die on their own, just keep them fortified.

the 2nd will land next to a big coastal city (you will have to capture it!)
this should happen a turn later!
you will need a few mech inf and many armor here.... as many as you can carry
all your navy and air should be supporting this....
use all your battleship to bombard the city while the troop land!
make sure your carrier have jet fighter and use them defend you from air attack!

it should be about 3rd turn since declared war now...
continue bombarding the city with battleship....
then use the armor to take the city....
after you taken the city, beef up the defense and get an airport immediately!
culture flip is likely so you must move very very fast!

with the airport, start airdropping troop from other cities to it!

to prevent cultural flip, there are 2 ways of playing....
capture city, razing city, capture city, razing city around it!
or if or economy is strong enough, capture all the cities! ^^